| | <<<Back 1 day (to 2014/01/13) | 2014/01/14 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: will do. | 00:20.41 |
| | ray_laptop: Oh, I thought peeved was one of the uber servers. If it's a different thing, then that makes sense. | 00:21.12 |
| mvrhel_laptop | hi henrys | 03:44.48 |
| | so I am getting going on gsview now | 03:44.56 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: oh great any initial thoughts? | 03:45.22 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I think the way I am going to do this is first get this working as a project within my windows 8 solution. so it will be built with mupdf. and then I will add in gs capability | 03:45.51 |
| | then I can leverage much of my mupdf interface I already wrote | 03:46.11 |
| | and hopefully share a bunch of code between gsview, windows 8 app and the windows phone app | 03:46.31 |
| | and only have the ui stuff be different | 03:46.43 |
| | I have been playing around with the current gsview application. it should not be too hard to make something much much nicher | 03:47.28 |
| | nicer | 03:47.31 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: I looked a bit at printing this week - 8.1 apparently is not friendly to port redirection which is important for gsprint | 03:47.48 |
| | mvrhel_laptop: have you looked into these classes of driver - class 3 and 4? | 03:48.22 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: I was wondering if I can do the type of stuff though that I have done for windows 8.1 printing | 03:48.24 |
| | which uses directX | 03:48.35 |
| | henrys: I have not look at those specifically | 03:49.00 |
| | but I can go ahead | 03:49.05 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: we'll sort it out at the meeting tomorrow. | 03:49.30 |
| mvrhel_laptop | My understanding of it is a little limited right now. I added printing support in the mupdf 8.1 application for which I just got notified that it passed validation so it should be in the store soon | 03:49.56 |
| | it is possible to print with it from the surface too | 03:50.14 |
| | with the app | 03:50.36 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: but it's raster right? | 03:50.37 |
| | mvrhel_laptop: we really want to send high level stuff to the xps pipeline. | 03:51.03 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: yes it is raster. if we had an XPS output device, we could easily do this | 03:51.21 |
| | how are we in getting that? | 03:51.42 |
| | or who is/was working on it | 03:51.50 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: for ghostscript, I am we have a functioning device now. I think I'm going to get it up to the level of pxl device - images, vectors but no fonts and see how we do with that performance wise. | 03:53.21 |
| mvrhel_laptop | oh ok. | 03:53.50 |
| henrys | but xpswrite will work now - just the output is a bit bulky | 03:54.23 |
| mvrhel_laptop | well I think we should plan on that path for the windoze print solution | 03:54.57 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: agreed. We probably need something mupdf also. | 03:55.25 |
| mvrhel_laptop | yes | 03:55.30 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: have your pot shops opened yet? Ours were underway Jan 1 and they are running out! | 03:56.33 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I read that. | 03:56.39 |
| | the state is right now trying to pick those who will get the liscences | 03:56.56 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: as a road cyclist I'm a bit concerned, we'll see how this goes. | 03:57.10 |
| mvrhel_laptop | yes | 03:57.14 |
| | need to head out for a bit | 03:58.47 |
| Robin_Watts | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/14/mobile_apps_not_financial_success/ | 10:00.51 |
| kens | Yes, read it before. | 10:01.29 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: 1 review on robin/master | 10:38.53 |
| paulgardiner | Robin_Watts: looking | 10:43.09 |
| | Robin_Watts: slightly odd if I'm understanding correcly. Normal case dl is calculated to be of length linewidth and in direction 90deg from d. New case dl is (0,0) | 10:52.18 |
| Robin_Watts | If the len is impossibly small, then we no longer calculate sqrt(len). | 10:52.49 |
| paulgardiner | Yeah, I got that bit | 10:53.17 |
| | It's just that dl was previously always length linewidth | 10:53.54 |
| | It may well not matter | 10:55.03 |
| Robin_Watts | I see your point. | 10:57.00 |
| | however in the case where len is very small, we cannot possibly know what direction dl{x,y}0 should have. | 10:57.25 |
| | hence setting it to 0,0 is the best we can do. | 10:57.41 |
| | and this is only used for drawing bevels. | 10:57.51 |
| | and 0,0 results in the correct result with the bevels. | 10:58.05 |
| paulgardiner | Yeah, that sounds reasonable to me | 10:58.09 |
| | So there is no way that removing the sideeffect of moveto (bn = 1) can upset any following calls? | 11:00.21 |
| | You can't have moveto followed by some other strange call that would look at bn | 11:01.12 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: Whereever bn is accessed, sn is accessed too. | 11:03.56 |
| | so they are always incremented/reset in lockstep. | 11:04.08 |
| | The values can never differ. | 11:04.14 |
| paulgardiner | So could they be removed from the struct? | 11:04.39 |
| | I mean just bn | 11:04.48 |
| Robin_Watts | I have removed bn from the struct. | 11:04.49 |
| | First chunk in the patch :) | 11:05.01 |
| paulgardiner | Aahh! I was reading that as local vars | 11:05.24 |
| | What values can sn range over? | 11:05.58 |
| Robin_Watts | 0, 1, 2. | 11:06.06 |
| | rarely 0. | 11:06.12 |
| paulgardiner | So now in lineto you are assuming not 0 | 11:06.42 |
| Robin_Watts | I am. | 11:06.48 |
| paulgardiner | What is sn? | 11:08.22 |
| Robin_Watts | sn = number of points recorded into seg or beg. | 11:08.45 |
| | seg[0] = start of last line segment. | 11:09.03 |
| | seg[1] = end of last line segment. | 11:09.10 |
| | beg[0] = start of first line segment of this subpath | 11:09.24 |
| | beg[1] = end of first line segment of this subpath | 11:09.35 |
| paulgardiner | So there is no chance of accidently getting into lineto with sn == 0? | 11:09.44 |
| Robin_Watts | No. | 11:09.48 |
| paulgardiner | In fact it would access bad memory on the first line if you did | 11:10.08 |
| | Okay. Looks fine to me | 11:10.13 |
| Robin_Watts | Thanks. | 11:10.16 |
| chrisl | kens2: ping | 14:42.56 |
| kens2 | pong | 14:43.01 |
| chrisl | kens2: running a PDF to pdfwrite causes the warning about "Use of -dUseCIEColor detected!" | 14:43.32 |
| kens2 | Yes ? | 14:43.55 |
| | I take it you aren't using -dUseCIEColor ? | 14:44.05 |
| | Let me try it here | 14:44.15 |
| chrisl | No, the UseCIEColor setting is coming from the PDF interpreter | 14:44.26 |
| kens2 | Hmm, then we should probably disable that right now. | 14:44.42 |
| | I can't see why we would be running all PDFs that way, it makes no sense | 14:45.03 |
| chrisl | pdf_main.ps: "% UseCIEColor is always true for PDF; see the comment in runpdf above" | 14:45.09 |
| kens2 | Give me a moment to read it | 14:45.20 |
| chrisl | It's not urgent, I just figured you hadn't noticed it | 14:45.57 |
| kens2 | No, you're quite right I hadn't | 14:46.13 |
| | I don't understand the comment at all :-( | 14:46.59 |
| chrisl | No, I must confess, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either..... | 14:47.26 |
| kens2 | It appears to define some Defauilt Color spaces, if UseCIEColor is true. | 14:47.58 |
| | But it doesn't otherwise. But since UseCIEColor is true, then it always defines them, so why test it ?# | 14:48.23 |
| | I think that comment is nonsense, and I have a suspicion that the definition of the default color spaces is nonsense too | 14:49.18 |
| | Ah, it looks at the 'current' parameter before it sets it to true | 14:50.06 |
| chrisl | My main concern is that it's not me DCT filter hacking that's prompted it to print erroneously..... | 14:51.09 |
| | s/me/my | 14:51.15 |
| kens2 | No its something baroque in the PDF interpreter | 14:51.24 |
| chrisl | It doesn't make sense to faff around with UseCIEColor when we have the ICC backend in place. | 14:52.25 |
| kens2 | I don't think it does no, but I'm trying to make some sense of the code at the moment | 14:52.45 |
| | I note that pdfwrite doesn't see CIE colours, so whatever it thinks its doing, it isn't..... | 14:53.07 |
| | Or at least I don't think it is. | 14:53.33 |
| chrisl | I thought it would see ICC colors now? | 14:54.11 |
| kens2 | I'm just going to try a cluster push with that line removed and see if there are any differences ;-) | 14:54.13 |
| chrisl | Ah, good, I kept you talking long enough to get my clusterpush in first.... :-) | 14:54.49 |
| kens2 | chrisl yes it does see ICC colours, but I can tell from those what they originally were. If UseCIEColor is true they always appear as CIEBased types | 14:54.51 |
| | ROFL | 14:54.57 |
| | Ah I see we have a 'smoots' on the cluster now | 14:56.02 |
| Robin_Watts | Need a smaller font size on the web dashboard :( | 15:05.01 |
| | I think leagues and yards are new too. | 15:05.49 |
| | and links ? | 15:05.59 |
| kens2 | leagues yes not sure about yards | 15:06.06 |
| ray_laptop | morning, all | 15:10.58 |
| kens2 | Morning Ray | 15:11.09 |
| henrys | hi ray_laptop | 15:12.06 |
| Robin_Watts | morning michael, ray. | 15:13.22 |
| kens2 | Robin_Watts : forgot tosay; thanks for following up on that gs-devel mail. I was 'fairly' sure that was the exact problem you were discussing with Mart, but not 100% certain. | 15:15.10 |
| Robin_Watts | kens2: No worries. | 15:15.31 |
| kens2 | grabs quick coffee | 15:15.35 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: Does it make sense to put out something really simple first - smart office exports pdf right? Office documents incoming to PDF are just forked off to SO like postscript is given to Distiller to create a pdf, then MuPDF displays the result. No code changes gets us in the game in a week. | 15:16.59 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: I am going to be about 5-10 minutes late to the meeting this morning | 15:17.15 |
| | have to run to school quick | 15:17.21 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: np | 15:17.26 |
| | ray_laptop:what is the history exactly to redmon - why wouldn't windows users just use the company's printer driver on windows? I am having a WTF am I doing moment. | 15:19.57 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Interesting idea. Does SO export word to PDF ? | 15:20.22 |
| kens2 | henrys redmon is for printing to PDF | 15:20.40 |
| henrys | kens2:no that isn't it folks are using it to print to non postscript printers. | 15:21.13 |
| Robin_Watts | It does. | 15:21.16 |
| kens2 | henrys I can't see why (or indeed how) you would use it to print to non-PS printers | 15:21.37 |
| | I suppose you oculd use it to print PS to GS, then rasterise it and send that to the printer, but that seems stupid | 15:22.15 |
| | Unless Windows doesn't support your pritner | 15:22.28 |
| chrisl | What about for proofing Postscript output on a non-PS printer? | 15:22.29 |
| kens2 | chrisl yes I suppose, but still..... | 15:22.42 |
| henrys | kens2:they pick an arbitrary postscript printer - say laser writer as a driver than redirect that stream through redmon to ghostscript and send it to non postscript printers. | 15:22.48 |
| Robin_Watts | I thought redmon provided a port that you could point a standard windows postscript driver at. | 15:22.49 |
| paulgardiner | henrys: Interesting, but that still means building the relevant parts of epage in some form. | 15:22.50 |
| kens2 | Why not just use gsprint ? | 15:22.51 |
| Robin_Watts | Then when you printed to that printer, redmon would save it to a file and then invoke gs on it ? | 15:23.07 |
| ray_laptop | kens2: redmon is just a port. YOu can use it to send driver output to anything. It isn't specific to the PSCRIPT5 driver in any way | 15:23.08 |
| kens2 | Robin_Watts : it provides a poprt you can point *any* printer at | 15:23.08 |
| | ray_laptop : yes I know, but still. | 15:23.25 |
| | Its only use with GS would be if WIndows didn't support your printer I would think | 15:23.40 |
| Robin_Watts | OK, so people can provide a port, point the postscript driver at, and then get gs to run the ps to, say, an epson printer. | 15:23.50 |
| kens2 | Yes | 15:23.58 |
| | THat's what Henry is saying | 15:24.04 |
| ray_laptop | so we _could_ (not that we want to) use a PCL driver and use pcl6.exe on it | 15:24.07 |
| Robin_Watts | yes. | 15:24.17 |
| kens2 | Which onlymakes sense if WINdows doesn't support your printer | 15:24.25 |
| Robin_Watts | So I don't follow why kens2 says: "I can't see why (or indeed how) you would use it to print to non-PS printers" | 15:24.35 |
| henrys | my question is why? get the windows driver for your printer | 15:24.37 |
| paulgardiner | henrys: I guess that is similar to Plan 2, but without the need for integrating to the point where epage parts and mupdf can be linked. | 15:24.41 |
| kens2 | Robin_Watts : redmon won't do anything to help you itself with printing is my point | 15:25.02 |
| paulgardiner | It could still be hellish to get the FBS to create something we can sensibly use for the conversion. | 15:25.08 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: I don't know how to get the beast to work in a "batch" like fashion. | 15:25.14 |
| kens2 | The 'non PS printers' part was in reference to a prior comment | 15:25.24 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: Indeed. If the test-shell app can be made to output pdf, then that would be a relatively fast way to go. | 15:25.33 |
| paulgardiner | Oh yeah, The test shell | 15:25.45 |
| Robin_Watts | cos that's a command line 'convert this file' thing that's pretty much ready to go. | 15:25.51 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: yes I guess the idea similar to plan 2 | 15:26.47 |
| marcosw | tor8 or Robin_Watts: which one of you knows about the git server? The following command <git clone git://git.ghostscript.com/ghostpdl.git> fails with a "fatal: read error: Connection reset by peer" error. | 15:27.17 |
| Robin_Watts | marcosw: Don't use git: ? | 15:27.40 |
| | Use http:// for readonly, I think. | 15:27.49 |
| kens2 | chrisl removing UseCIEColor did make a difference in a small number of files, going to bmpcmp them now | 15:28.56 |
| paulgardiner | What sort of "in the game" are we trying to achieve. A demo presumably, but in what form? | 15:29.28 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: OK, so test-shell does not have a PDF export option at the moment, but that may not be that hard to add. | 15:29.50 |
| | It has -layout and -hq and -thumb etc. | 15:30.15 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: well the idea is to go to a printer customer and show them we can display and print an office document. That's the game I meant, sorry to be unclear. | 15:30.43 |
| Robin_Watts | Miles is going to Japan in Feb, right? | 15:31.14 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: yes, late Feb I believe but I'm not sure, it is in one of those emails | 15:31.58 |
| marcosw | Robin_Watts: then someone needs to change mupdf.com, it says to use git://git.ghostscript.com/mupdf.git | 15:32.03 |
| paulgardiner | I thought that was probably what you meant, but does this approach produce something usable within a printer? I guess they all run linux these days. | 15:32.40 |
| Robin_Watts | So to have this hooked up in (say) the android app would be a nice demo. | 15:33.04 |
| | paulgardiner: Well, it would be proof of concept at least. | 15:33.20 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: yes. | 15:33.27 |
| Robin_Watts | Even if we had to then hack it about to do in memory transfers etc. | 15:33.38 |
| | I do think that, long term, plan 1 is neater. | 15:34.39 |
| | paulgardiner: I did some playing with the test-shell when I was looking into this. | 15:35.03 |
| paulgardiner | So get the FBS to produce some sort of Android object that our MuPDF app can use to translate docs. That could be hellish | 15:35.10 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: No. We need a separate exe that the android app can invoke on temporary files. | 15:35.32 |
| | system("ConvertFromDocToPDF in.doc out.pdf"); etc | 15:35.55 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: sure I'm thinking of this as a fast way to market I want to go forward with plan 1 | 15:36.19 |
| Robin_Watts | I have an epage source tree here with various bits renamed away, so I could see what the minimal set of libs we needed for testshell were. | 15:36.32 |
| | I can share the list of my renamings if that helps you. | 15:36.43 |
| paulgardiner | Can you install exe files as part of an app? | 15:36.47 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: I believe so, cos someone was using mudraw as part of an android app, if memory serves. | 15:37.08 |
| henrys | kens2: so yes I am a bit lost as to what the goal is. We do have this customer using gsprint and redmon. The other issue is device classes in Windows 8.1 | 15:38.02 |
| kens2 | device classes ? | 15:38.18 |
| | redmon doesn't work properly in WIndows 7 | 15:38.25 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: I think you just put the exes in the apk. | 15:38.25 |
| paulgardiner | That would make sense. | 15:38.39 |
| kens2 | Also, gsprint doesn't make sense with RedMon, they have different purposes | 15:38.55 |
| henrys | kens2: you can no longer use a port monitor with a so called class 4 device - which is all printer manufactured devices on windows. | 15:38.57 |
| kens2 | henrys correct, instead you use a print pipeline filter | 15:39.12 |
| tor8 | marcosw: sorry, it's been too long since I set it up. I think I had to reboot some deamon last time it happened | 15:39.17 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ok I am back | 15:39.19 |
| kens2 | printer device drivers are no longer what I would call a 'driver' | 15:39.25 |
| paulgardiner | So there's then the problem of making the FBS create such a thing. Sounds possible, but not exactly quick and easy. | 15:39.29 |
| kens2 | henrys maybe we should continue this after the meeting, its hard to follow the interleaving | 15:39.47 |
| tor8 | then it was some gitweb stuff that had got stuck, and run out of "accept()" slots to accept more incoming git: requests | 15:39.50 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: Process process = Runtime.getRuntime().exec("/system/bin/ls /sdcard"); | 15:39.55 |
| henrys | kens2: lets maybe mvrhel_laptop and ray_laptop can stick around to talk about it. | 15:40.11 |
| kens2 | OK sounds good | 15:40.21 |
| marcosw | tor8: np, I'll figure it out, just thought I'd ask before spending time on it. | 15:40.35 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: It sounds to me like we need to make the FBS output an exe built using the ndk as the toolchain. | 15:40.42 |
| tor8 | marcosw: if you look at "ps ax | grep git-daemon" you can see it full of stuck processes | 15:40.48 |
| | killall them and all should be fine | 15:40.55 |
| henrys | marcosw1: any idea what wen't wrong with that commit yesterday? | 15:41.25 |
| tor8 | I think it's the git-upload-pack that's stuck trying to send data to a closed connection or something buggy like that | 15:41.27 |
| paulgardiner | Robin_Watts: yeah. That has the phrase "get the FBS to" in the middle of it. :-( | 15:41.34 |
| marcosw | henrys: sorry, I haven't looked. I'll do so after the meeting (and after breakfast). | 15:42.00 |
| henrys | marcosw1: if I broke something I assume it will get caught in all the other testing you do. | 15:42.02 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: I would have hoped that wasn't *that* hard as the FBS has support for lots of different toolchains in already. | 15:42.08 |
| | paulgardiner: If you looked at making test-shell do the pdf export, I could look at the build issues ? | 15:42.34 |
| tor8 | marcosw: I just did a "sudo killall -9 git-upload-pack" and that cleared up the process list so try your git clone now | 15:42.36 |
| marcosw | henrys: yes, the nightly/weekly regression tests will notice :-) | 15:42.58 |
| | tor8: yup, that was it. thx. | 15:43.29 |
| tor8 | marcosw: I have no idea what causes it to do that, but it's only happened once before | 15:43.57 |
| henrys | kens2:what else are you working on now? | 15:44.23 |
| paulgardiner | Robin_Watts: yeah, it has to be worth a go, I guess. I just have this worry that it is going to lead us into some unexpected hell and take much longer than expected. The nice thing about Plan 1 was not touching the FBS | 15:44.25 |
| kens2 | henrys I'm mostly chasing bugs | 15:44.50 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: Well, we have the option of abandoning it and backing out at any point. | 15:44.50 |
| kens2 | But I havce some more to do with colour work and pdfwrite | 15:45.03 |
| henrys | chrisl: are you good with that bug now? | 15:45.12 |
| chrisl | henrys: the jpeg one? Yes, very nearly there | 15:45.26 |
| marcosw | tor8: I won't worry about it then. | 15:45.27 |
| tor8 | paulgardiner: I think plan1 is probably the sanest in the long run (I doubt we'll want the maintenance burden of all of smartoffice) | 15:45.32 |
| chrisl | henrys: I'll stick up the code changes for you to review when I'm all done | 15:45.50 |
| paulgardiner | Yeah true. First thing then, I'll see if I have all the prerequisites installed and can build at least something | 15:45.59 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: The idea of writing wrapper functions so that fitz can appear to be wearing Wasps clothes scares me, so plan 1 is the way to go. | 15:46.16 |
| henrys | chrisl: os is the descriptor I copy pasted must have had an implementation for enum ptrs etc. | 15:46.18 |
| tor8 | plan2 is like we do with v8, plan 1.1 is how we do our other thirdparty libraries | 15:46.32 |
| kens2 | chrisl I'm starting to get a hazy picture of what this CIEColor stuff is for and its nasty. A right royal GS hack. | 15:46.34 |
| henrys | s/os is// | 15:46.37 |
| tor8 | I've never been fond with how we do v8, but given its size it's the only way that makes sense | 15:46.52 |
| chrisl | henrys: it does yes, and I'm getting rid of all that | 15:46.58 |
| ray_laptop | kens2: I'd recommend talking with mvrhel_laptop about it. | 15:47.09 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: whats going on? | 15:47.17 |
| chrisl | kens2: can't say I'm surprised...... | 15:47.19 |
| kens2 | ray_laptop : I don't think michael cna help, its all PS nastiness | 15:47.22 |
| henrys | chrisl: okay, you could also bring back the implementation there is nothing wrong with gc off the heap right? | 15:47.28 |
| mvrhel_laptop | oh good | 15:47.29 |
| paulgardiner | Robin_Watts: I wonder if we have any documentation of the builds that were commonly done? I used to be able to look at the nightly build page, but of course not now. | 15:47.41 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : the PDF interpreter unconditionally sets UseCIEColor | 15:47.46 |
| mvrhel_laptop | Robin_Watts: paulgardiner: so Japan is the last week in Feb. | 15:47.56 |
| ray_laptop | kens2: UseCIEColor or CIE based color spaces in PS files ? | 15:47.58 |
| kens2 | ray_laptop : UseCIEColor | 15:48.05 |
| henrys | chrisl: but I'm sure what you have is fine. | 15:48.12 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: We do not. It took me a while to figure out a suitable build line for the test shell. | 15:48.13 |
| chrisl | henrys: I don't understand that question - we can't gc memory allocated from teh head allocator | 15:48.16 |
| | s/head/heap | 15:48.24 |
| ray_laptop | kens2: yeah, I reacall seeing that in pdf_main | 15:48.26 |
| mvrhel_laptop | a demo processing an office doc would be great | 15:48.27 |
| Robin_Watts | Which is the one in the email I sent. That's part of the reason why I thought test-shell would be a good start :) | 15:48.40 |
| kens2 | ray_laptop : there is some black magic to make it have no effect most of the time. | 15:48.43 |
| | ray_laptop : Fundamentally, with the ICCbased workflow, I believe its all wrong | 15:49.03 |
| henrys | chrisl: it isn't memory from the head allocator it gets it own chunk whose address is known by the gc I believe. | 15:49.07 |
| mvrhel_laptop | oh so this is pdf interpreter stuff | 15:49.10 |
| ray_laptop | kens2: probably so | 15:49.14 |
| paulgardiner | When's the meeting? Is this it because I have a couple of other things I need to mention. | 15:49.17 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : yes, I'm afraid so | 15:49.19 |
| ray_laptop | kens2: it predated 9.00 by many years | 15:49.35 |
| kens2 | ray_laptop : yes, I htikn it needs revisited now. | 15:49.48 |
| ray_laptop | paulgardiner: I thought the meeting was going on ;-) | 15:49.56 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: so the way that UseCIEColor *should* work with the ICC is to use the default CIE color spaces but they get converted to equivalent ICC | 15:49.57 |
| henrys | chrisl: perhaps this is a semantic issue I'm including getting rid of chunks as part of gc. | 15:50.23 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : the PDF interpreter always sets up UseCIEColor, and then if the device did not originally have UseCIEColor, defines the Default* spaces to be the equivalent Device* spaces. | 15:50.47 |
| | mvrhel_laptop : Then if the *page* has a Deatul* space, it uses that instead | 15:51.09 |
| | Err, Default* | 15:51.17 |
| chrisl | henrys: we free chunks when they are empty, that's independent of gc | 15:51.20 |
| paulgardiner | henrys: I believe the iOS app has reached a point where we could do another release, but I'm wondering if we should do some more testing (assuming there are others with iOS devices). | 15:52.30 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: Sounds like there may be a Rube Goldberg thing going on | 15:52.32 |
| henrys | chrisl: I thought during a gc we did that looking for empty chunks stuff. Or it happens at some other time? | 15:53.26 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : that's exacxtly right. PDF has no concept of 'UseCIEColor', instead if a page has a Default* space, then that's essentially a signal to transform the corresponding device space componetns into device-independent components by using the Default* space. Sort of like turning on UseCIEColor | 15:53.52 |
| | THe PDF interpreter currently fakes this by setting UseCIEColor to true always (so all colours get mapped through) but cheats by making the original Default* space the Device* spaces, so nothing happens | 15:54.46 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: I'll try it out on my iPhone - it would be nice if ray_laptop could get it going on the ipad | 15:57.02 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: For android, you can put "test" versions of an apk up, and users registered as "testers" for your app will download that version. | 15:57.09 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: ok. I think I did not touch any of this stuff. I just make sure that all Device spaces get assigned to ICC color spaces and any PS CIE color spaces get mapped to equivalent ICC profiles. | 15:57.10 |
| Robin_Watts | I believe (from a quick google) that itunes does a similar thing. | 15:57.22 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : I'm sure it wasn't you, don't worry :-) | 15:57.25 |
| chrisl | henrys: I can't recall that, but you could be right. I'm sure it's relevant to this, though. | 15:57.26 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: yes paul this is the meeting ;-) | 15:57.27 |
| mvrhel_laptop | :) | 15:57.53 |
| paulgardiner | henrys: great thanks, although, having said that, I'm unsure how to create something you can install. It isn't as simple as with Android. | 15:57.54 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : I need to think whether there is a better way to do this now, I feel sure there should be. | 15:58.19 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: I thought tor8 new some hack to do that. | 15:58.24 |
| paulgardiner | I believe I need to compile your device ids into the test app | 15:58.24 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: any simplification of the interpreter would be a great thing. | 15:58.54 |
| henrys | tor8:anything for the meeting? | 15:58.59 |
| kens2 | agrees completely | 15:59.03 |
| paulgardiner | henrys: oh okay, hopefully we can get that sorted out | 15:59.12 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner: You may be right :( | 15:59.13 |
| kens2 | Hmm turning off UseCIEcolor makes some of the Ghent files behave.... | 15:59.45 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: so there is some prayer we could have something for japan, that will make miles happy and he'll call me less ;-) | 16:00.12 |
| Robin_Watts | paulgardiner, tor8: http://git.ghostscript.com/?p=user/robin/mupdf.git;a=commitdiff;h=3f19d4b9f6118b1731fa5609d9726675317256cc | 16:00.31 |
| kens2 | Are you saying you don't enjoy Miles' calls ? | 16:00.33 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Just tell him to call paulgardiner :) | 16:00.39 |
| ray_laptop | henrys: do any customers care about running on iOS ? | 16:00.48 |
| henrys | ray_laptop: no we are putting out iOS code to attract new customers | 16:01.19 |
| paulgardiner | henrys: when was Japan again? | 16:01.20 |
| mvrhel_laptop | last week in Feb. | 16:01.30 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: japan feb 20 something | 16:01.35 |
| mvrhel_laptop | we leave Feb. 22 | 16:02.18 |
| henrys | so the 1/2 hour is up, anybody else have meeting stuff? | 16:02.38 |
| kens2 | Ah and there is one to keep Henrys busy :-) | 16:02.44 |
| henrys | kens2: I don't even have to look at my mail - guillaume | 16:03.14 |
| kens2 | :@-) | 16:03.20 |
| paulgardiner | yeah, Plan 1 would be unlikely to give us something by then, but your idea has a good chance. | 16:03.36 |
| henrys | marcosw: are you still here? | 16:03.41 |
| marcosw | henrys: yes | 16:03.50 |
| henrys | marcosw: I wanted to get guillaume's original plot printed 1500.plt | 16:04.23 |
| mvrhel_laptop | brb | 16:04.29 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: So, should I help paulgardiner with the FBS bashing ? | 16:04.30 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: you would be dropping JNI bindings? | 16:04.50 |
| Robin_Watts | At the moment, it would be dropping fuzzing problems. | 16:05.05 |
| marcosw | henrys: I started it before the meeting, I'll see if it's done. | 16:05.23 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: fuzzing is mostly codecs so shelly and simon right? | 16:05.31 |
| Robin_Watts | The SEGVs on the mupdf ones are fixed except for codecs. | 16:05.50 |
| | The valgrind issues aren't all fixed yet. | 16:05.57 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: please help with FBS bashing if paulgardiner invites you to the base. | 16:05.58 |
| | s/base/bash | 16:06.03 |
| paulgardiner | Robin_Watts: consider yourself invited | 16:06.22 |
| Robin_Watts | I'm doing the valgrind ones that aren't codec based. | 16:06.28 |
| marcosw | henrys: no, still plotting. started with ~5 feet of white space followed by a line plot entirely in green, so I guess that's good news for you :-) | 16:06.46 |
| paulgardiner | I'm out tomorrow, but I'll work Fri instead | 16:06.48 |
| marcosw | I'll post pictures to the bug when it's finsihed. | 16:06.55 |
| henrys | marcosw: that would have been good news before I spent a long time on the problem ;-) | 16:07.27 |
| | Robin_Watts: can tor8 work on the valgrind stuff - I don't think we should drop that. | 16:08.28 |
| marcosw | henrys: sorry about that. I'll try to be more proactive about plotting files when they come in. | 16:08.43 |
| tor8 | I'm not up to speed with the valgrind work. | 16:08.54 |
| henrys | marcosw: no problem the file was so complicated it motivated me to work on a pcl assemble and dissassember that I've wanted to do. | 16:09.31 |
| kens2 | noticed that, it would be useful to me too | 16:09.54 |
| | It takes me ages to decode PCL files | 16:10.08 |
| henrys | kens2: I've had some customers ask for it too, so we should have something. | 16:10.26 |
| | kens2: so redmon - we can also do this another day if you want to get away for dinner. I'll be here early tomorrow. | 16:12.39 |
| kens2 | henrys I'm here for a while still :-) | 16:12.53 |
| | At least another hour | 16:13.07 |
| | So there are *2* 'products' here, gsprint and redmon | 16:13.23 |
| | THey do different thigs | 16:13.27 |
| | gsprint essentially allows you to send PostScript (or potentially PCL or XPS) to a printer which does nto understand it | 16:13.57 |
| henrys | ray_laptop:do you want to get in on this. | 16:13.59 |
| | ? | 16:14.22 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ok I am back | 16:14.27 |
| kens2 | It does this by using GS to render the incoing fikle to a btimap. THaqt bitmap is then 'drawn' on a printer device context and then pritned to the printer n question. | 16:14.29 |
| | So this is how you send PS to a non-PS printer. Note, it deos not use RedMon | 16:14.47 |
| marcosw | henrys: I'm going to get breakfast. bbiab | 16:14.53 |
| henrys | marcosw: okay | 16:15.02 |
| kens2 | RedMon is a Port Monitor, it does nothing clever with the input, but it allows you to 'process it' | 16:15.14 |
| | So when someone prints form a WIndows application to a particular printer, which is on the RedMon port, we take the print stream and 'do' something to it | 16:15.50 |
| | In particular we use this to convert PS to PDF. | 16:16.05 |
| henrys | kens2: but you need redmon so that applications can print with your gsprint so they really aren't separate. | 16:16.10 |
| kens2 | Obviously in this case the printer we set up is a PS priner | 16:16.15 |
| | henrys we don't use gsprint with RedmMon | 16:16.27 |
| | You run gsprtin as an application, it consaumes the input and sends the bitmap to a named printer | 16:17.00 |
| | It does *not* invoke RedMon (usually) | 16:17.10 |
| | Say the printer is on LPT1: | 16:17.19 |
| | So gsprint just uses the OS to 'print' the bitmap, it doesn't know which port the printer is on and soesn't care | 16:17.42 |
| | THe OS deals with all of that. COnverting the bitmap to the relevant PDL, spooling it, then sending the spool file to the port | 16:18.07 |
| | I mean you *could* send to a RedMon port, but there's no reason to | 16:18.23 |
| | Basically gsprint is for printing 'input' to a prtiner which does not understand 'input' | 16:18.39 |
| | and RedMon is for 'processing' the prtin stream from the OS. | 16:19.00 |
| | I can't see any reason why you would use the 2 together, though its not impossible | 16:19.24 |
| | Am I making sense ? | 16:19.38 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys, kens2: so for the gsview project, the print plan is to go ahead and get us to xps content which we will send through the windows pipeline. do we want another product gsprint which does this without all the viewer etc options like gsview will have? | 16:20.33 |
| henrys | kens2: have a look at the pipeline here http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~henrik/GSPSprinter/GSPSprinter.html ⦠Postscript -> Virtual Postscript Print etc... | 16:21.03 |
| kens2 | for WIndows 8 gsprint would need to convert the PS (or PDF or PCL) into XPS | 16:21.05 |
| | henrys you could do that but I don't see why you would, give me a min ute | 16:21.22 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: right | 16:21.34 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : so this is the xpswrite from henry. Note that at worst you could render the whole thing ot an image :-) | 16:21.58 |
| | Once you have an XPS file you can inject it starioght into the print stream, I have code for that already | 16:22.19 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: I am currently doing that with DirectX into the print pipline in the Mupdf windows 8.1 app | 16:22.23 |
| kens2 | THe conversion to PDF is more complex. | 16:22.45 |
| mvrhel_laptop | One can specify the dpi and it will tile based upon the systems DirectX capabilities | 16:22.59 |
| kens2 | There are no port monitors any more, there are print pipeline filters | 16:23.01 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: sorry, was on phone with paulgardiner. | 16:23.15 |
| kens2 | So to replace RedMon we need a filter. | 16:23.25 |
| Robin_Watts | I'm hopeful that that bit I've put myself on the line for will only take a day or two. | 16:23.35 |
| | (either it will take a day or two, or it'll be a massive pain in the ass, and we may have to reconsider) | 16:23.53 |
| kens2 | henrys I don't see gsprint on that URL | 16:24.01 |
| Robin_Watts | so the valgrind fuzzing stuff can probably wait for a couple of days, right? | 16:24.10 |
| kens2 | henrys that URL seems to deal with the RedMon only end of stuff. | 16:24.47 |
| henrys | kens:gsprint is the same as using gs with with the mswinpr2 device right? | 16:24.50 |
| Robin_Watts | I have a fix for one of the fuzzing things up now if tor8 or paulgardiner have time to look at it. | 16:24.56 |
| kens2 | henrys yes | 16:24.57 |
| | OK I see mswinpr2 now | 16:25.13 |
| | henrys I don't know what they are trying to do there. | 16:25.51 |
| henrys | I was hoping ray_laptop might have some history on this. I see how it works like you do, but the rhyme and reason is baffling. | 16:25.55 |
| kens2 | henrys the only reason I cna see for that setup is if they have a printer which WIndows does not support. | 16:26.59 |
| ray_laptop | henrys: history on which (I'm lost) | 16:27.03 |
| chrisl | kens2: see point 2 of "Why would you want to do this?" - remembering the Kyocera, Brother, HP bugs we've found? | 16:27.07 |
| kens2 | chrisl yes, that is a possibility, but using mswinrp2 is not the way to go | 16:27.26 |
| | I would say | 16:27.31 |
| | Actually if Windows doesn't support the printer, then they can't use mswinpr2 so chrisl must be right | 16:27.56 |
| | WHich is a very niche use case IMO | 16:28.04 |
| ray_laptop | right. all mswinpr2 does is send a bitmap to a printer driver | 16:28.22 |
| henrys | ray_laptop: and why do I want to do that if windows supports all printers. | 16:28.58 |
| | ? | 16:29.01 |
| ray_laptop | do what ? | 16:29.13 |
| kens2 | henrys the only remotely sensible use case is point 2 "It enables you to easily print a Postscript file using a different Postscript engine then your existing Postscript printer" | 16:29.35 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I think we are comparing two different ages and we need to push forward with the XPS print pipeline path | 16:29.40 |
| kens2 | As chrisl says if your PS prtiner chokes on your file, you could use this setup to convert it into an image and pritn that instead. | 16:30.00 |
| ray_laptop | if you mean, why do I want a mswinpr2 device in gs. About the only real use it to print PS files. | 16:30.09 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : THere are (broadly) 2 problems, WIndows 8 and every other version of Windows | 16:30.20 |
| Robin_Watts | pops to fetch drugs for wife. bbs. | 16:30.34 |
| ray_laptop | or if you want to do an app that allows you to print PDF's | 16:30.36 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: How do you figure? | 16:30.41 |
| ray_laptop | without invoking Acrobat | 16:30.50 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : You cna't use the XPS path on older versions of WIndows | 16:31.00 |
| chrisl | As I said before, I could also see it being used for proofing PS output on an non-PS printer - before sending PS to the "production" printer | 16:31.17 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I thought we were not going to worry about XP and earleir | 16:31.18 |
| | Vista and up all have the XPS path | 16:31.30 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : Vista and 7 are not totally compatible with 8 | 16:31.34 |
| | Parts of that pipeline ar enot present in the older versions | 16:31.50 |
| | AIUI | 16:31.56 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: XPS printing should work fine in 8 | 16:32.11 |
| kens2 | in 8 yes, but not (again AIUI) in Vista or 7 | 16:32.24 |
| | If we write stuff for 8 we cannot be certain it will run on Vista or 7 | 16:32.39 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: oh well yes. there will be some testing to do with respect to all of this | 16:33.02 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : I think its worse than 'testing' there are API changes across the versions and some things simply aren't there in the older versions | 16:33.32 |
| | But the old print path is present in everything *except* 8 (actually its there too, but hard to use) | 16:33.48 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: the print path in 8 is not hard to use from what I read | 16:34.13 |
| kens2 | SO for 8 we need pipeline filter and XPS print patj. | 16:34.14 |
| | mvrhel_laptop : Yes but what about older versions of WIndows ? Very few people are using 8 | 16:34.31 |
| | I don't know about your government but ours are basically moving to 7y now | 16:34.46 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: the plan is to support Vista, 7 and 8 | 16:34.49 |
| | if I recall correctly from the meeting | 16:35.12 |
| | when we get to sticky parts I now know the printing program manager at MS | 16:35.53 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : And my point is that we either use a lowest common denominaotr (Vista) because we can't be sure stuff will work with later versions of WIndows. Or we need a Port Monitor and gspritn for Vista\ and 7, and XPS prtin path and pipeline filter for 8. | 16:36.00 |
| henrys | here is a customer bug: http://bugs.ghostscript.com/show_bug.cgi?id=691921, correct me if I'm wrong they are using the windows printer which is redirected to gsprint, so they can print from an application. | 16:36.05 |
| mvrhel_laptop | so I can always get him to point me to the right stuff | 16:36.09 |
| kens2 | henrys yes, they are using gsprint | 16:36.22 |
| | For them, a Windows 8 XPS print path is what they need | 16:36.49 |
| | mvrhel_laptop : if you are absolutely confident that we cna do an XPS pritn path and a pipeline filter, and it will work seamlessly with versions of Windows form Vista upwards, that's fine by me :-) | 16:37.26 |
| mvrhel_laptop | How do you know that have 8? | 16:37.28 |
| | kens2: I don't know that. | 16:37.43 |
| | but I do know that Vista and on all support XPS | 16:37.54 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : I don't, but you are saying it doesn't matter, because if its XP or below we won't help them and if its Visat or above then its an XPS pritn path | 16:38.03 |
| mvrhel_laptop | the use of the pipeline and the API may differ | 16:38.06 |
| kens2 | I have no evidence to support my concerns here, but I remember the Vista XPS print path being, well, broken.... | 16:38.55 |
| henrys | kens2: and the customer has to be using redmon | 16:39.20 |
| kens2 | henrys why ? | 16:39.27 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: so what do you propose that we do for the future. that is the question we are trying to answer | 16:39.44 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : for the futre we *need* and XPS pritn path and a pipeline filter (for PDF output) | 16:40.07 |
| henrys | kens2: because they are printing to the windows printer - which I assume produces postscript which is shipped off to gsprint | 16:40.18 |
| kens2 | henrys I don't see what they are pritning to at all | 16:40.32 |
| | THey are printing the files by invoking gsprint directly | 16:40.56 |
| | mvrhel_laptop : the question isn't really what we need for WIndows 8, its what do we need for Vista and 7 | 16:41.46 |
| henrys | kens2: I though the spooler invoked that - they just send from the app to windows psdrv or whatever it is called. | 16:42.03 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: well I suspect that Vista is the real one that probably is the issue | 16:42.27 |
| | maybe we should just worry about 7 and 8 | 16:42.39 |
| | if someone is using Vista they have bigger issues | 16:42.55 |
| kens2 | henrys I don't use gsprint, so I don't knwo what they are doing, but I see no eveidence from the bug report that they are using the WIndopws PostScript pritner or RedMon | 16:42.58 |
| | mvrhel_laptop : COUld be, I'm less sure of 7, my prior experience was with Vista | 16:43.18 |
| kens2 | sees his spelling is deteriorating | 16:43.35 |
| | henrys -printer 'prints to the specified printer' | 16:44.03 |
| | SOP in there should be the printer name and teh bitmap gets printed to tha tprinter by Windows, no usage of RedMon | 16:44.21 |
| | I believe if you don't specify -printer you get whatever the default printer is on your system | 16:44.50 |
| | Or use -noprinter :-) | 16:45.01 |
| henrys | kens2: I'm reading between the lines of Russell Lang's comment | 16:45.09 |
| kens2 | Russel is describing whichever pritner they are using, that's what he means by 'the Windows pritner' | 16:45.42 |
| | THere is no such animal as 'the WIndows printer' otehrwise | 16:45.54 |
| | He means (IMO) 'whichever printer you are pritning to' | 16:46.15 |
| | Basically gspritn doesn't know anything about the priner cpaabilities, and can't set them | 16:46.31 |
| | So whichever printer you print to, GSprint uses its default capabilities | 16:46.50 |
| | ie the ones you have it currently set to | 16:46.59 |
| | So for example if you have a printer with A3 and A4 media, and have A4 set as the default for that printer config, then you will always get A4 output, even if the input PostScript requested A3. | 16:47.52 |
| | gsprint doesn't require RedMon and doesn't (at least usually) use it. THe web site you pointed at does, but I consider that to be an unusual use case. | 16:48.43 |
| | Actually making a printer available to Linux is maybe a more sensible use | 16:49.55 |
| henrys | kens2:without redmon how do you print from an application? gsprint is not a printer driver. | 16:49.59 |
| kens2 | henrys why would you need to ? If WIndows supports your pritner, you print direct to it. If Windows doesn't support your pritner, the approach on that URL won't work, because it uses the mswinpr2 device, which can only print to a printer supported by Windows. | 16:50.51 |
| | That's why I say the described reasons are a niche use case | 16:51.17 |
| | spam from paulgardiner ? O.O | 16:51.47 |
| paulgardiner | :-) Does look like spam | 16:52.18 |
| kens2 | henrys the most sensible reasons for the setup described on that URL are for allowing non-Windows computers to print to a non-PostScript printer on a Windows box. | 16:52.52 |
| | THat does need redmon | 16:53.05 |
| | Printing from an application on that Windows box doesn't | 16:53.20 |
| marcosw1 | henrys: I briefly looked into why commit 2c5cd8c29271d8735349353538c4a353f3aa563b generated unexpected bitmap differences. all the differences were in files that were run on your macpro. | 16:53.28 |
| kens2 | *unless* you want to 'print to PDF' | 16:53.33 |
| marcosw1 | this doesn't explain why you didn't see it in your clusterpush (unless your mac was offline for that run). | 16:53.55 |
| Robin_Watts | marcosw1: Was the macpro down for the preceeding commit that tested PCL? | 16:54.19 |
| marcosw1 | and also if you macpro was now generating different bitmaps than the rest of the cluster we'd see differences in every cluster. | 16:54.31 |
| | Robin_Watts: nope. | 16:55.06 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys, kens2: so, our plan for gsview and a new version of gsprint is to have them generate xps content and we will figure out how to get it in the pipeline for 8, 7 and Vista | 16:55.21 |
| marcosw1 | henrys: is your macpro reachable via ssh? | 16:55.43 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : For WINdows 8 I have no concerns, for 7 I suspect it can be made to work, for Vista, I am worried. | 16:55.52 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: I have the same concerns | 16:56.04 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: agreed yes. | 16:56.15 |
| kens2 | cheers, no Port Monitor | 16:56.27 |
| marcosw1 | alternatively I could run tests on mine, but it also particpated in the 2c5cd8c29271d8735349353538c4a353f3aa563b commit run and didn't show anything, so would likely be a waste of time. | 16:56.29 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: when we get to a sticky point, I will draw on my resource at MS | 16:56.36 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : well you are better placed than me | 16:56.48 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: but I would like to see your XPS filter code too | 16:56.57 |
| kens2 | BTW we will still need some way to sign the 'driver' if we want to do 'prtin to PDF' | 16:57.09 |
| henrys | marcosw1: no do you have any idea where I could look? | 16:57.11 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : You're welcome to the code, its practically trivial | 16:57.22 |
| henrys | marcosw1: no it isn't ssh available. | 16:57.31 |
| marcosw1 | henrys: there isn't anything interesting in the log messages. | 16:57.35 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: so with windows8 mupdf app, I can print to any of the print devices installed including XPS, PDF | 16:58.04 |
| henrys | marcosw1: is that a question? | 16:58.07 |
| mvrhel_laptop | need to grab some breakfast | 16:58.27 |
| marcosw1 | no, a reply to where you could look (more coming). | 16:58.28 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : THere's an included PDF printer ? | 16:58.29 |
| marcosw1 | I would try to run one of the files that showed a difference between your macpro and one of the other cluster nodes, i.e. henrysx6 and see if there is difference in the output. | 16:58.42 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I have one on my system. but it came from adobe :) | 16:59.11 |
| | kens2^^ | 16:59.20 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : Ah OK | 16:59.30 |
| | I suspect they do what I was talking about and install a pipeline filter | 16:59.43 |
| | for that you need a V4 driver, and you need to sign those | 16:59.58 |
| mvrhel_laptop | right. so do we want a gsprint driver? | 17:00.17 |
| | for windows 8? | 17:00.30 |
| kens2 | gsprint would be the xpsprint thing I have here, if I cna find iot..... | 17:00.31 |
| mvrhel_laptop | one that lets you print to xps, pdf, ps or image files would be cool | 17:00.56 |
| kens2 | Well once you have an XPS file, you can send it to any printer you like, that's all it does | 17:01.17 |
| | THe other half of the project is henrys xpswrite | 17:01.27 |
| marcosw1 | henrys: there is something weird in the next commit cluster run after yours, there were 198 md5sum differences that matched in the previous cluster run. I'll check to see if those files are the same ones that had differences in your commit run. | 17:01.45 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: ok I see | 17:01.57 |
| kens2 | You put the 2 together and you can print PS,PDF potentially PCL and of course XPS to any printer on your system | 17:01.57 |
| mvrhel_laptop | this is the way to go | 17:02.17 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : I can hook my code up to Henrys any time he ahs it done | 17:02.20 |
| henrys | kens2: xpswrite works now just use small files for now. | 17:02.20 |
| mvrhel_laptop | i need to get some food. | 17:02.44 |
| kens2 | henrys I'll try and make a small demo if I cna figure out this UseCIEColor thign tomorrow | 17:03.03 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: me too miss breakfast | 17:03.10 |
| | kens2: sounds good | 17:03.14 |
| | s/miss/missed | 17:03.26 |
| kens2 | Grr, cannot get VS to co-operate | 17:03.29 |
| | Oh, I woner if I used VS 2012 for this..... | 17:03.51 |
| marcosw1 | henrys: yes, they are the same files. odd. | 17:05.38 |
| kens2 | aha. OK mvrhel_laptop (for the logs) I'll send you the noddy code. | 17:05.45 |
| marcosw1 | (or perhaps, "not odd"). | 17:05.58 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: ok thanks | 17:08.10 |
| kens2 | On its way now | 17:08.52 |
| | Ah, Miles says next meeting in Texas | 17:09.06 |
| marcosw1 | henrys: I have to run to uni, I'll figure out the issue with commit regression and send out an email. it may still be necessary to run some tests on your macpro; if you can't get incoming ssh working I'll send you instructions on what I need | 17:09.13 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: so before I get printing working, I am going to get mupdf working with my c# ui stuff for the new gsview | 17:09.30 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: makes sense to me. | 17:09.48 |
| Robin_Watts | kens2: Looks like virgin isn't an option. | 17:10.16 |
| kens2 | Robin_Watts : I haven't looked yet | 17:10.25 |
| Robin_Watts | No return flights on 9/10/11/12... | 17:10.29 |
| kens2 | I'll look into it later tonight, need to head off now | 17:10.52 |
| | Robin_Watts : I'd want to fly Thursday and return Monday I htink | 17:11.20 |
| | BUt sounds like no return flights on MOnday anyway form what you say | 17:11.32 |
| Robin_Watts | indeed. | 17:11.40 |
| | United requires a change. | 17:12.02 |
| kens2 | Not doign that | 17:12.13 |
| | Been ther done that, don't like it. Surely someone does direct flights | 17:12.27 |
| Robin_Watts | American, Iberia/BA. | 17:13.05 |
| | And I won't fly iberia. | 17:13.10 |
| chrisl | American <sigh>..... | 17:13.28 |
| kens2 | :-( | 17:13.32 |
| chrisl | Looks like Delta might be an option | 17:13.51 |
| | Not much better | 17:13.57 |
| kens2 | I can't find any return fligths from Dallas on Virgin :-) | 17:13.58 |
| Robin_Watts | kens2: Why fly back on monday? | 17:16.26 |
| | sunday night evening flight no good? | 17:16.33 |
| kens2 | Robin_Watts : If its late enough sure | 17:16.41 |
| | I htink the Sunday meetin will run late and we are 40 mins for the airport | 17:16.55 |
| Robin_Watts | American flight leaves at 9:20pm | 17:16.55 |
| kens2 | Plausible | 17:17.00 |
| | Virgin can do the dates, but it requires a change, and of course that means the 2nd leg will be a domestic carrier. Not doing that | 17:17.55 |
| Robin_Watts | American 79 in, 78 back seems plausible. 608 quid. | 17:18.13 |
| | 777, with a smattering of power points. | 17:19.07 |
| kens2 | power points not that bothered, I know you are | 17:19.24 |
| | KLM offering $508, just working out what the downside is | 17:19.49 |
| Robin_Watts | personal Tv with on demand system. | 17:19.59 |
| | kens2: The downside would be flying KLM. | 17:20.10 |
| kens2 | Bigfger downside is they are all changes, none direct | 17:20.29 |
| Robin_Watts | what did you have against american ? | 17:20.44 |
| kens2 | Its an Americna airline | 17:20.54 |
| Robin_Watts | oh, right. | 17:21.02 |
| kens2 | Nothing specific though | 17:21.15 |
| Robin_Watts | careful what you say, cos Kelly (scotts sister) works for American :) | 17:21.23 |
| | I've flown american and it's always been fine. | 17:21.35 |
| chrisl | American does look the best bet, though. At least a 777 should be a new-ish plane | 17:21.37 |
| | Any idea far Denton is from Dallas? | 17:22.00 |
| Robin_Watts | 40 mins. | 17:22.04 |
| | We'd need to coordinate. | 17:22.11 |
| kens2 | Yes | 17:22.16 |
| Robin_Watts | If the 4 of us are on the same plane, we could hire a car? | 17:22.23 |
| kens2 | So flying on same plane woujld be best | 17:22.23 |
| | 5 if we get Tor | 17:22.32 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: as long as you're happy to drive ;-) | 17:22.41 |
| tor8 | kens2: I'm checking options | 17:22.43 |
| Robin_Watts | I'm happy to drive. | 17:22.43 |
| chrisl | :-) | 17:22.48 |
| Robin_Watts | We can get 5 in a car, probably. | 17:22.55 |
| | (well, depending on the car we hire :) ) | 17:23.11 |
| kens2 | I guess if there's 5 of us we can justify a big car | 17:23.27 |
| Robin_Watts | It'll be a nice trial run as I'm doing it again in August :) | 17:23.41 |
| tor8 | kens2: Robin_Watts: I have one BA option available | 17:23.45 |
| kens2 | Ah yes so you are | 17:23.49 |
| | tor8 you could pull the same trick as last time and come here first, only thing is its a longer journet for you that way | 17:24.20 |
| tor8 | kens2: or we canmeet up in heathrow if you all take the BA flight, which is direct | 17:24.40 |
| Robin_Watts | tor8: Are we sure it's not really an iberia flight? | 17:24.59 |
| kens2 | BA works for me also but I think Robin is seduced by the poewr points | 17:25.03 |
| Robin_Watts | I will not fly iberia. | 17:25.15 |
| kens2 | ANd I don't want an Iberia code share | 17:25.16 |
| tor8 | bah, nvm, it's the american codeshare | 17:25.20 |
| kens2 | Well that's OK if we're on the Americna one :-) | 17:25.40 |
| Robin_Watts | Let me mail miles and check that that flight out fits with his idea about how long the sunday meeting will take. | 17:26.11 |
| kens2 | OK | 17:26.21 |
| | Is there a Monday option instead / | 17:26.30 |
| tor8 | kens2: my other option if you don't want american is lufthansa via frankfurt | 17:26.39 |
| kens2 | tor8 I'm not dead set against american | 17:26.53 |
| Robin_Watts | kens2: Yes, I believe so. | 17:26.58 |
| kens2 | I prefcer not to use US carriers, but I will do so. | 17:27.13 |
| | Looks like its Americna or BA. Everyone else is using one of those flights (or Iberia) on a code share | 17:28.09 |
| | Robin_Watts : there are definitely BA direct flights which aren't a code share | 17:28.45 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: signed up for testflight | 17:29.00 |
| chrisl | Looks like American have a 7:15pm or 9:20pm flights on the Monday | 17:29.16 |
| kens2 | Yes, evening flights back | 17:29.33 |
| | THough I think I see a 17:45 there too | 17:29.49 |
| | WOuld nbeed to check with their website | 17:29.55 |
| paulgardiner | Thanks henrys | 17:30.16 |
| chrisl | kens2: I thought that had a change - can't remember | 17:30.22 |
| kens2 | could be, suffering information overload atm | 17:30.36 |
| | Actually, can't be, I made it non-stop only | 17:31.00 |
| Robin_Watts | The only direct flight back with AA on sunday is 78, I believe. | 17:31.08 |
| kens2 | Prices are all roughly the same and there seem to be only a choice between BA and American | 17:32.40 |
| | So since Robin wants power lets sayAmerican | 17:32.53 |
| chrisl | On the Monday, the 5:45pm flight is BA | 17:33.14 |
| Robin_Watts | Hmm. How long a flight is it ? | 17:34.48 |
| kens2 | 10 hours ish | 17:35.06 |
| Robin_Watts | ok, I thought I saw 14 hours on one site! | 17:35.22 |
| kens2 | could be with a change | 17:35.29 |
| Robin_Watts | no, that was direct, I thought. 16 with a change. ho hum. | 17:35.53 |
| chrisl | 10h 25m out, 9h 20m back, apparently..... | 17:36.06 |
| kens2 | I see 3 flights out 79,51, 6154 | 17:36.23 |
| | None leaving at 09:20 | 17:36.43 |
| | nearest s 09:45 | 17:36.52 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: American or BA? | 17:37.01 |
| chrisl | that was flights times | 17:37.03 |
| kens2 | Robin_Watts : Americna, on their own website | 17:37.12 |
| chrisl | flight durations, I mean | 17:37.21 |
| Robin_Watts | That's where I was looking. | 17:37.22 |
| kens2 | 78 is the return flight at 09:20 | 17:37.51 |
| | I htink I misread your original | 17:37.59 |
| Robin_Watts | 79 out, 78 back, yeah. | 17:38.07 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: that is pretty cool no idea it existed | 17:38.14 |
| Robin_Watts | 79 out takes off at 13:25, which is nice - no stupidly early start here. | 17:38.32 |
| kens2 | 79 seems more expensive ? | 17:38.47 |
| | not a lot I grant | 17:38.51 |
| | Wait | 17:39.03 |
| Robin_Watts | 294 on the BA site. | 17:39.04 |
| paulgardiner | henrys: nor did I 1/2h ago. On of the Emobix people put me onto it. | 17:39.06 |
| kens2 | No its OK | 17:39.14 |
| | 01:25 pm why cna't they use 24 hour clock..... | 17:39.26 |
| | OK 79 out 78 back looks OK if Miles is good with the timing | 17:39.52 |
| Robin_Watts | 608 quid on the AA site, 609 on the BA one. :) | 17:40.00 |
| | no, 607.75 on the BA one. | 17:40.10 |
| tor8 | kens2: I believe I can make the same flights so we all arrive and depart from the US at the same time | 17:40.32 |
| kens2 | THat would be cool tor8 | 17:40.40 |
| tor8 | thursday out, sunday home? | 17:40.43 |
| kens2 | Thats the current plan | 17:40.50 |
| | as long as Miles thinks we cna make the 21:20 flight on SUnday OK | 17:41.10 |
| tor8 | kens2: and if that plan doesn't work out, I would be happy to come visit you again. | 17:41.30 |
| kens2 | We will need to leave by ~17:30 or so, if we hire a car | 17:41.30 |
| | tor8 NP you are welcome. | 17:41.41 |
| | And this time no visiting plumber :-) | 17:41.54 |
| | extra leg room for £72 | 17:44.02 |
| | or £36 for the cheap ones | 17:44.26 |
| | Might go for that if they stillhave some aisle seats, at least they let you choose the seat | 17:44.43 |
| | Robin_Watts : you mailed Miles ? | 17:45.02 |
| Robin_Watts | I did. | 17:45.06 |
| | kens2: You can view the available seats on the AA site. | 17:45.16 |
| kens2 | OK then I will go cook and eat. I'll check back here later and book flights if all is good | 17:45.31 |
| | Robin_Watts : yes, I'm doing that. | 17:45.37 |
| | THey have stars depending on how much extra room you get | 17:45.48 |
| Robin_Watts | The plane back is a different configuration. | 17:45.51 |
| kens2 | yep | 17:45.58 |
| | THey have some really posh seats on the way back | 17:46.48 |
| Robin_Watts | oh, but power everywhere on the way back. | 17:46.48 |
| kens2 | I don't see the power options, must be a different page | 17:47.04 |
| Robin_Watts | seatguru :) | 17:47.10 |
| kens2 | ah! | 17:47.14 |
| Robin_Watts | hmm. seatguru review of the return airplane is not good. | 17:47.54 |
| kens2 | OK Robin_Watts if you cna either mail me or just post Miles reply here I have to dash off | 17:48.04 |
| | back later | 17:48.08 |
| Robin_Watts | BA planes have the same 10 across format on that leg :( | 17:52.24 |
| kens | mvrhel_laptop : I forgot to mention, the vcproj ios for VS 2008, I guess it should work if you update it though, and the code is so simple you cna always make a new solution | 19:07.50 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ok thanks | 19:18.02 |
| | kens ^^ | 19:18.05 |
| | let me see what my flight options are for the meeting... | 19:20.03 |
| kens | Better than ours I guess, htough it;ll be a longer flight than usual for you | 19:20.22 |
| mvrhel_laptop | yes | 19:20.28 |
| kens | THis useciecolor is shockingly wrong in some cases, eg: | 19:21.00 |
| | http://ghostscript.com/~regression/ken/compare20.html | 19:21.00 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: The reviews for the AA flights back from DFW are pretty bad. | 19:21.07 |
| | supposedly really low legroom. | 19:21.13 |
| kens | Oh that's not great Robin_Watts | 19:21.15 |
| | Though I was planning to buy extra legroom anyway | 19:21.29 |
| Robin_Watts | The BA flights look to be similar layouts though. | 19:21.37 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens: that is pretty bad | 19:21.38 |
| kens | I just don't charge Miles for it | 19:21.40 |
| | mvrhel_laptop : THe blue stuff is supposed ot be greay | 19:21.53 |
| | gray | 19:21.57 |
| Robin_Watts | though, possibly BA has more legroom. But no power. | 19:21.57 |
| | BA would mean staying til monday. | 19:22.12 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : BA is OK by me, but I haven't looked a the options there | 19:22.17 |
| | staying till Monday is a\lso OK | 19:22.23 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens: to the middle one is with UseCIEColor? | 19:22.33 |
| kens | mvrhel_laptop : yes, that's the reference one, teh candidate (left) has it temporarily suppressed | 19:22.51 |
| Robin_Watts | I'm happy to go with the consensus. | 19:22.54 |
| kens | If you look at page 1, then you can see there are overprint problems with the Ghent suite also | 19:23.08 |
| Robin_Watts | short leg room => power is pretty useless as you can't fit a laptop in anyway. | 19:23.13 |
| kens | and one of the Altona files is also incorrect | 19:23.20 |
| | Robin_Watts : good point.... | 19:23.26 |
| Robin_Watts | I could buy extra legroom too, I guess. | 19:23.56 |
| kens | If we go for Monday, that alleviates any concern about makling the meeting Sunday | 19:24.00 |
| | Robin_Watts : rabges from £356 to £80-odd | 19:24.13 |
| Robin_Watts | It does mean we lose a whole day though. | 19:24.16 |
| kens | that should say £36 | 19:24.27 |
| Robin_Watts | as there are only evening departures. | 19:24.32 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : yes, I'd prefer Sunday, but.... | 19:24.40 |
| Robin_Watts | If it was just me, I think I'd live with the crap legroom and go sunday night. | 19:24.59 |
| | and maybe look at buying extra legroom seats. | 19:25.09 |
| kens | Well I'll buy the room anyway | 19:25.18 |
| | So not a problem from my POV | 19:25.25 |
| | I would buy them with Virgin, but they don't let you pre-assign the seats | 19:25.46 |
| | The US carriers all seem to which is a definite plus | 19:26.01 |
| Robin_Watts | The US carriers are way more keyed up with the "view the free seats, prebuy them" stuff than the UK ones. | 19:26.32 |
| kens | Its only the extra legroom ones I care about :-) | 19:27.08 |
| kens | thninks this UseCIEColor stuff will definitely have to change | 19:27.44 |
| | I'll have to puzzle my way through the PDF interpreter tomorrow | 19:28.14 |
| Robin_Watts | marcosw1: ping | 19:30.56 |
| kens | mvrhel_laptop : one thing just occured to me. I have a Vista machine here, I can test out the XPS print path by using my code on it and see what happens. Of course, that doesn't tell me anything about the pipeline filter, but it will cover teh 'gsprint' part of the problem. I'll do that tomorrow too. | 19:34.09 |
| Robin_Watts | marcosw1: I've been seeing strange results with the cluster - it's claiming a couple of files have changed, when they shouldn't have done. Specifically the files that changed with commit c3305e72. | 19:34.24 |
| | so I went back and I did a user cluster push of c3305e72 and it told me those files had changed. It's as if the cluster didn't update its baseline for c3305e72 | 19:35.05 |
| | So I've forced the cluster to retest c3305e72 now. | 19:35.22 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens: sounds good | 19:38.27 |
| | I have a vista laptop here also that I might be able to use for testing eventually | 19:38.41 |
| kens | I'll let you know how it pans out :-) | 19:38.44 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens: thanks | 19:38.53 |
| kens | Its more the pipeline filter that worries me, because it will be more complex | 19:39.10 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens: so my understanding of the diff. between vista and 7 is that MS included a rasterizer for XPS content in 7 so that printer driver manufacturers no longer need to provide that component. | 19:40.56 |
| kens | That's the biggest difference | 19:41.22 |
| | I think there may be others | 19:41.27 |
| mvrhel_laptop | with 7 and 8, my hope is that we just hand off the XPS content and away it will go | 19:41.50 |
| kens | that certainly works for 7 and 8 for me | 19:42.01 |
| | Again, its the pipeline filter for PDF output that I am more conceerned with | 19:42.22 |
| mvrhel_laptop | oh. that would be a bit more complex | 19:42.50 |
| kens | That's teh other part we need. | 19:43.00 |
| mvrhel_laptop | and we need to be in place in a different spot I suspect | 19:43.10 |
| kens | THe XPS pritn path replaces gsprint | 19:43.10 |
| | mvrhel_laptop : yes, its a filter. | 19:43.17 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ok that makes sense | 19:43.26 |
| kens | We would also need to create a printer driver | 19:43.29 |
| mvrhel_laptop | yes | 19:43.33 |
| kens | Because the driver specifies the filters | 19:43.40 |
| | THe filter is to do the job of replacing RedMon so we cna have 'print to PDF' | 19:44.24 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ok | 19:44.51 |
| | kens: you are working way late tonight | 19:45.22 |
| kens | We either use our XPS interpreter and pdfwrite, or we specify the XPSPSdrv filter and use the existing PS->PDF | 19:45.35 |
| | mvrhel_laptop : yes, waiting for Miles reply | 19:45.45 |
| | Also Melanie and boyfriend are monopolising the sitting room | 19:45.57 |
| | I expect the filter to be frustrating to write :-) | 19:46.30 |
| | From my previous experience, we don't want to build GS into the filter DLL if we can avoid it | 19:47.26 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens: ok. I have a bunch of reading to do on this. I will ping the guy at MS to see what resources are best for me to review. | 19:48.23 |
| kens | I found two gooddocs | 19:48.39 |
| mvrhel_laptop | so for the meeting is sounds like either late Sunday or early monday return | 19:48.53 |
| kens | I made PDF from them, I';ll mail them to you | 19:49.00 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens: if you can share them. thanks | 19:49.05 |
| kens | mvrhel_laptop : yes | 19:49.07 |
| Robin_Watts | mvrhel_laptop: For us, it's late sunday or late monday :( | 19:49.16 |
| mvrhel_laptop | are you arriving thursday? | 19:50.01 |
| Robin_Watts | yes. | 19:50.06 |
| kens | yep | 19:50.27 |
| mvrhel_laptop | oh alaska has non-stops.. | 19:50.30 |
| kens | Alaska ? Don't they fly beavers or something ? :-) | 19:50.54 |
| | mail on its way mvrhel_laptop | 19:51.26 |
| mvrhel_laptop | thanks kens | 19:51.30 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: Dehavilland make 'otters' I believe :) | 19:51.47 |
| kens | maybe that's whaqt I mean | 19:51.55 |
| Robin_Watts | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Canada_DHC-3_Otter | 19:52.13 |
| | I flew from Anchorage to Katmai and back in one. | 19:52.30 |
| | oh, originally called the "King Beaver". There you are. | 19:52.53 |
| kens | ah, so not that far out then | 19:53.01 |
| mvrhel_laptop | 7:50 out on Sunday should be fine I would think | 19:53.41 |
| | pm that is | 19:53.44 |
| kens | well we are looking at 21:21 | 19:53.53 |
| | but we have 40 minute drive to airport, and then its an international flight, so needs more time | 19:54.09 |
| mvrhel_laptop | and you were not sure if that was ok? | 19:54.09 |
| kens | We would need to leave ~17:30 | 19:54.28 |
| kens | fetches more coffee | 19:54.49 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I see . so that is what you are waiting on from Miles? | 19:54.52 |
| ray_laptop | kens: at least on a Sunday pm, the traffic should be OK | 19:54.53 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens ^^ | 19:54.54 |
| kens | mvrhel_laptop : yes, pretty much | 19:55.03 |
| | also a consensus decision on American on Sunday with (allegedly) bad legroom or BA on Monday with no power and an extra day in sunny Dallas.... | 19:55.38 |
| chrisl | Not too fussed about the leg room - can't be worse than the Delta flight from LAX->Maui..... | 19:56.47 |
| ray_laptop | mvrhel_laptop: do you have any idea why we can't actually remove the pdf14 compositor device when we do the 'popdevice' ? | 19:56.58 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ray_laptop: You mean remove it so it is not even just a forwarding dummy device? | 19:57.35 |
| | ray_laptop: That is the way that it has been since I joined Artifex. So I am not sure why it is not actually "removed" | 19:58.36 |
| Robin_Watts | 31" seat pitch, supposedly, which is the same as virgin. | 19:58.49 |
| | mvrhel_laptop: It is possible that it introducing it/removing it is more expensive than just enabling/disabling it? | 19:59.45 |
| | So we take the hit of adding it once, but then get to turn it on and off cheaply? | 20:00.02 |
| mvrhel_laptop | Robin_Watts. That is possible. I don't know. What is going wrong that having it disabled does not work | 20:01.16 |
| Robin_Watts | Ah. In a hard to fix way? | 20:01.45 |
| ray_laptop | mvrhel_laptop: sorry -- phone call. yes, removing by passing up the original (target) pointer so that gs_state_update_pdf14trans will plug it into the pgs | 20:04.26 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ray_laptop: I don't see what would prevent you from completely removing it but I don't understand what the reason is | 20:06.26 |
| ray_laptop | Robin_Watts: most of the work of freeing the pdf14 context is done anyway | 20:06.47 |
| | mvrhel_laptop: when I insert a clist accumulator pdf14 device in the chain, I want to be able to get rid of it | 20:07.57 |
| mvrhel_laptop | oh I see | 20:10.07 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : if the legroom is the same as Virgin it can't be that bad surely ? | 20:13.54 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: yeah, maybe the seatguru review is bogus. | 20:14.15 |
| kens | Well, I htink as long as Miles is good with the time we should go for it | 20:14.32 |
| | American that is | 20:14.36 |
| Robin_Watts | yeah, me too. | 20:15.44 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: so, those books/authors you recommended a couple of months ago - I've read something from most of them: Gridlinked, Levian Wakes, Stealing Light. But for me, Wool was the really outstanding one, probably the most compelling book I've read in years. | 20:31.35 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: yes, I'd agree with that. | 20:31.54 |
| | I've read wood, shift and dust. | 20:32.04 |
| | I have shift as an ebook I can share, and dust as a dead tree. | 20:32.19 |
| chrisl | I've read Shift, waiting on Dust coming in paperback when it comes out | 20:32.33 |
| kens | same | 20:32.53 |
| Robin_Watts | I have pretty much all the asher stuff as dead trees. His universe expands nicely in the other books. | 20:33.11 |
| | Books 2 and 3 of stealing light aren't as good. | 20:33.37 |
| | I really liked Leviathan Wakes. | 20:33.53 |
| | and I've read the 2 followups. Also good - if you liked the original. | 20:34.27 |
| kens | I enjoyed lviathan | 20:34.45 |
| chrisl | I liked Leviathan Wakes, too, I've got the sequel waiting to read. | 20:34.59 |
| Robin_Watts | Did you ever read "The Passage" ? | 20:35.53 |
| | (Justin Kronin) | 20:35.59 |
| chrisl | Nope, haven't read that | 20:36.24 |
| Robin_Watts | Reminds me a lot of "The Stand" by Stephen King, which I really liked. | 20:36.40 |
| | And I've just read the followup, "The Twelve". | 20:36.58 |
| | I wish there hadn't been such a long gap between me reading the first and second books. | 20:37.11 |
| chrisl | I only got around to reading the Shining a few weeks ago - haven't read much Stephen King. I'm not much of a horror fan | 20:37.25 |
| Robin_Watts | The Stand is not horror. | 20:37.38 |
| | at least, I would not classify it as such. | 20:38.05 |
| chrisl | I didn't really classify The Shining as "horror" either | 20:38.32 |
| | I've read Joyland and Different Seasons | 20:39.07 |
| Robin_Watts | Not sure I've read those | 20:39.40 |
| chrisl | Joyland is recent. Different Seasons is the book of novellas that Stand By Me and Shawshank Redemption were based on | 20:40.20 |
| mvrhel_laptop | are any of these good for a 12 year old boy | 20:40.26 |
| | wool looks interesting | 20:40.37 |
| Robin_Watts | mvrhel_laptop: wool is excellent. Do you have a kindle ? | 20:40.56 |
| mvrhel_laptop | he tends to like the distopia stories. Robin_Watts yes | 20:41.05 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: I've probably read them in other collections. | 20:41.15 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: I didn't think they had been in other collections - could be wrong, though. | 20:41.46 |
| | mvrhel_laptop: if he likes dystopian stories, Wool would be my recommendation, too | 20:42.44 |
| mvrhel_laptop | chrisl and Robin_Watts ok. I will get it for him then | 20:42.59 |
| Robin_Watts | Don't. | 20:43.11 |
| Robin_Watts | runs to get food. | 20:43.27 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ok | 20:43.35 |
| kens | I have to go now, bye all. Hopefully we'll get a reply from Miles in the morning | 20:43.48 |
| chrisl | I type too slow...... | 20:44.11 |
| | mvrhel_laptop: something like the Chrysalids by John Wyndham might be good for him | 20:49.26 |
| mvrhel_laptop | chrisl ok thanks | 21:00.53 |
| chrisl | Just trying to remember what I read when I was that age....... | 21:01.13 |
| | Okay, done for the day - 'night all! | 21:26.46 |
| | Forward 1 day (to 2014/01/15)>>> | |
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