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kens Robin_Watts : ping13:49.45 
Robin_Watts pong13:58.23 
kens Robin what app and switch do I need to get MuPDF to emit a linearised PDF ?13:58.57 
Robin_Watts mubusy clean -l in.pdf out.pdf13:59.16 
kens Hmm, I don't have a mubusy13:59.26 
Robin_Watts That's lowercase L.13:59.30 
  What platform ?13:59.37 
kens Windows13:59.43 
Robin_Watts Then you should have a mubusy,13:59.55 
kens A .exe ?14:00.03 
Robin_Watts yes.14:00.23 
  win32/debug/mubusy.exe14:00.33 
kens I have pdfclean, pdfdraw, pdfextract, pdfshow and xpsdraw14:00.33 
Robin_Watts How old is your codebase ?14:00.46 
kens Not that old, I have a mubusy sub folder14:00.55 
Robin_Watts We haven't shipped those for over a year.14:01.00 
kens could be old ones left over14:01.23 
  I do have a mubusy sub fodler, with object files, but no executable in there14:01.45 
  Yes, those .exe are nearly 12 months old14:02.09 
  I'l open the solution14:02.29 
Robin_Watts Are you doing 'build solution' or 'build mudraw' ?14:03.12 
kens I think I did build solution14:03.24 
  Building mubusy gives me a load of errors14:03.33 
Robin_Watts such as ?14:03.42 
kens missing source files14:03.48 
  Looks like thirdparty is not there14:04.09 
  Possibly not in the correct place14:04.46 
  Project is using ..\thirdparty14:05.12 
  Ah, wrong version of jpeg14:05.27 
  Must be out of date14:05.31 
  Yes, they are all too old14:06.02 
  WHere are you keeping the thirdparty sources ?14:06.12 
Robin_Watts mupdf.com/download14:06.59 
kens OK I'll go fetch14:07.07 
  thanks14:07.10 
Robin_Watts np.14:07.16 
kens That's a lot happier, thanks14:10.29 
paulgardiner Robin_Watts, tor8: a few commits on paulg/forms if you have a moment. 14:31.46 
Robin_Watts ok.14:32.23 
paulgardiner ta14:32.29 
kens Hmm Robin_Watts looking at the output from mubusy when linearised....14:39.16 
  I see that teh Info, Root, Metadata and pages tree are included before the first page object14:39.46 
  I thought that the first page object preceded those14:40.08 
  (maybe my source is out of date)14:40.18 
  Or perhaps I'm wrong, since Acrobat X likes your file :-)14:41.09 
  OK the Info dict definitely shouldn't be there (p 1031 of the 1.7 reference)14:43.54 
Robin_Watts kens: I think that technically the catalog stuff should all come later.14:44.02 
kens The Catalog should be there, its specififed as such14:44.17 
Robin_Watts but Acrobat liked it, so I stopped worrying.14:44.21 
kens THe Info dict shouldn't14:44.23 
Robin_Watts The pages tree etc, I meant.14:44.34 
  sorry.14:44.46 
kens Oh yes, teh pges tree is supposed to be elsewhere14:44.47 
Robin_Watts but the pages tree is very small, so if Acrobat wasn't going to complain, I wasn't going to worry about it.14:45.14 
kens Typical, Acrobat is bleating about something in my file buyt I can't figure out what, but doesn't actually enforce the simple stuff like where these objects should be ;-)14:45.20 
  I wonder if I messed up and put the Catalog in the wrong place.14:45.46 
  No, my Catalog is correct.14:46.02 
  Back to my first theory, my Hint stream is wrong.14:46.14 
chrisl Robin_Watts: do you happen to know if using c99 features in lcms2 was a conscious decision on Marti's part, or something that has crept in unintentionally?14:47.10 
Robin_Watts I don't think Acrobat actually looks at the hint stream.14:47.10 
  such as ?14:47.17 
chrisl sqrtf()14:47.25 
kens Robin_Watts : then I'm puzzled what irts complaining about :-(14:47.30 
Robin_Watts kens: I feel your pain14:47.49 
  chrisl: Pass.14:47.58 
chrisl Okay, no worries....14:48.08 
kens I wonder if Acrobat expects some stuff to be before the first page, that the sepc says should be later.14:48.28 
  I guess I need to fire up Distiller14:48.36 
  No, the Acrobat ordering matches mine. Now I'm really confused.14:51.17 
  Huh, Distiller puts the hint stream before the document catalog, which is *not* what the spec says14:52.55 
  Part 5 (hint stream) Can precede or follow part 6 (first page) but part 4 (document catalog) is supposed to precede iot.14:53.50 
  Nice to see Adobe sticking to their crap standard so well14:54.03 
  Hmm, I wonder... I've forgotten to include an /ID in my trailer dict....14:55.15 
  No, its supposed to be optional14:56.42 
  chrisl this mail from 'Darshan' about the installer, I think we can do a silent install ?15:00.37 
chrisl kens: yes, we can - I'll need to look up how, though. Although I *think* the uninstaller doesn't work silently15:01.33 
kens OK do you want to reply to him or shall I ?15:01.52 
chrisl I guess I will - btw, the answer is in the FAQ.....15:02.31 
kens :-)15:02.38 
chrisl Erm, he hasn't actually asked a question....15:03.52 
kens I thought his original mail asked if a silent install was possible15:04.16 
chrisl There are two "points" in the mail, but no actual questions15:04.42 
kens OK so he didn't directly ask, but it is implied.15:04.42 
  "Is there an to install in the silent mode or can you provide us a "MergeModule". "15:04.58 
  So he missed of the question mark :-)15:05.05 
chrisl Well, what does "Supported Environment" imply?15:05.10 
kens Beats me15:05.16 
Robin_Watts I reckon Scotts email missed the mark too.15:05.21 
kens You could reply that 'supported environment' is 'GPL version is supplied without support' and ask what e means15:06.26 
  I also have no idea what a 'MergeModule' is, but suspect it may be related to the Microsoft Installer, whcih we dont' use.15:07.03 
  Indeed:15:07.47 
  "Merge modules provide a standard method by which developers deliver shared Windows Installer components and setup logic to their applications."15:07.47 
Robin_Watts I read his email as "I want to make our software install all in one hit, and hide the fact we are using gs from our customers as it will only confuse them".15:07.56 
kens Yes, possibly15:08.06 
  Or at least ask questions they don't want to have to have them answer15:08.26 
Robin_Watts which raises red flags about valid GPL usage (but doesn't necessarily preclude it).15:08.28 
kens We certainly won't want to supply a MSI 'MergeModule'15:09.35 
chrisl Well, giving the benefit of the doubt, I think he did say if we satisfy their requirements, they'll be in touch about licensing15:10.12 
kens Yes, agreed.15:10.34 
  OK Acrobat clearly doesn't look at the hint stream at all.15:11.57 
  I just replaced a Flate encoded stream with all '0' and it did not complain15:12.11 
  And indeed even claimed the file was 'optimised for fast web view'15:12.33 
Robin_Watts indeed.15:16.50 
kens scratches head15:17.01 
  No idea what I'm doing wrong....15:17.10 
Robin_Watts kens: Put the file online somewhere, and I'll have a look ?15:18.20 
kens I guess I'd better check the xref offsets15:18.21 
  Robin_Watts : I'mm mail it, its really small15:18.30 
Robin_Watts mail is bad M'kay.15:18.45 
kens OK well I can put it on casper I guess.15:18.58 
Robin_Watts Less chance of corruption/spam filtering etc that way, I reckon.15:19.14 
kens takes me longer though, that's all15:19.26 
Robin_Watts pscp file.pdf gs: ?15:19.41 
kens what is pscp ?15:19.56 
Robin_Watts pscp is puttys scp client.15:20.07 
kens never knew it had one15:20.20 
Robin_Watts gs is my putty saved session for casper.15:20.45 
kens OK in casper home/ken15:21.28 
  out.pdf15:21.31 
Robin_Watts so: pscp file.pdf gs:whatever copies files to casper, and pscp gs:file.pdf blah.pdf copies them back.15:21.32 
kens I normally use winscp15:21.49 
  TOo many copies of Visual Studio running, hard to find the one I want :-(15:22.54 
Robin_Watts Your 'E' offset takes you to object 15.15:32.52 
kens Yes ?15:33.01 
Robin_Watts Mine takes me to object 1.15:33.06 
kens Its hte end of the first page15:33.10 
  Object 15 is hte thint stream, and follows page 1 in my file15:33.23 
Robin_Watts OK, yes.15:33.30 
  Was just looking for differences.15:33.34 
kens Please keep trying !15:33.42 
  A fresh pair of eyes migh tsee what I'm missing....15:33.53 
  By co-incidence I'd jusrt been chcking that value15:34.09 
Robin_Watts My T value points 1 byte further on.15:34.40 
kens Yeah I think I'd just figured that one out15:34.53 
Robin_Watts Yours is right according to the spec, but doesn't match Acrobat.15:34.55 
kens I *think* the spec says its supposed to point at the white space preceding the first entry15:35.08 
  Let me try with that changed15:35.21 
  No Acrobat still doesn't like it15:35.53 
  Looks like Acrobat is happy with the /T value either way15:38.10 
  In fact corrupting it makes no difference either15:38.33 
  I just changed the values in every entry in the Linearisation dict, and Acrobat didn't bat an eyelid15:39.09 
  SO we can obviously ignore all of those15:39.17 
  Also annoyingly, the non-linearised version of this file opens fine in Acrobat. So its 'something' I'm doing in teh linearisation process, but its not the hint stream or the linearisation dictionary (because we can see Acrobat ignores those)15:44.46 
Robin_Watts The linearised file doesn't load in acrobat ?15:45.05 
kens It loads15:45.10 
  Acrobat flahses a tiny little dialog15:45.18 
Robin_Watts Ah.15:45.23 
kens and when I close the dfile it offers to 'save the changes'15:45.28 
Robin_Watts Well, then it will never say "Optimised for web viewing"15:45.35 
  Sorry, I was looking that, rather than anything else.15:45.52 
kens No, art the moment I'm more concerned by the fact that it wants to rewrite teh file15:45.54 
  I'm assuming thre is something in the file structure Acrobat doesn't like15:46.20 
Robin_Watts mudraw doesn't blink at it.15:46.30 
kens Since I couldn't see anything else, I was assuming it was the hint table (previously I wasn't writing one properly)15:46.47 
  But it obviously isn't that15:47.00 
  SO I'm at a loss15:47.07 
  Note that Acrobat 7 opens it without complaint also....15:47.20 
Robin_Watts Is /Prev is wrong in the top trailer ?15:48.37 
  s/is//15:48.43 
kens I checked it, but it could be15:48.47 
  Let me check again15:48.57 
Robin_Watts no, sorry, my bad.15:49.33 
kens No problem, worth checking15:49.45 
  Seems OK to me15:49.49 
Robin_Watts If I load the file and save it back out of emacs, it changes. Gah. I hate editors.15:50.39 
kens Me too. THe VS editor keeps opening files in text mode, even though I've selected the binary editor....15:51.05 
ray_laptop who came up with the 'mubusy' name for an app ?15:55.02 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: Me.15:55.17 
mvrhel what app is that?15:55.29 
Robin_Watts It's all the 'mu' apps in one. It's a 'busybox' build as it were.15:55.32 
ray_laptop sorry, Robin_Watts, but I think it is really lame15:55.35 
mvrhel that might need a bit of work...15:56.18 
ray_laptop mutools or mutoolbox or something would have been more well understood15:56.22 
Robin_Watts It was a request from a user. When we transitioned to using it as the main thing then it should probably have been renamed mutool, yes.15:56.37 
ray_laptop or mupdf-tools but 'busy' ???15:56.42 
Robin_Watts It made perfect sense when it was the special 'busybox' build.15:57.02 
  but as the one and only tool, it should have been renamed.15:57.26 
ray_laptop since it hasn't been around for long, can we change it going forward.15:57.36 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: I would have no objection to such a renaming.15:58.06 
  The trick is to link muclean (or pdfclean) to mubusy etc, then you can just call that.15:58.52 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: I hope you don't take offense. I didn't even know what it was until I noticed the discussion with kens in the logs today15:59.08 
  Robin_Watts: ln (or ln -s) is OK on linux15:59.29 
Robin_Watts indeed. That's the point of busybox builds.16:00.07 
kens Well, tried changing the EOL on the xref entries form \r\n to " \n", no dfifference16:00.25 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: busybox is not something I have ever encountered16:05.47 
kens Robin_Watts : changed to ensure consistent line endings thoughout the file, no change. Blanled the linearisation dict, no change, so it *must* be a structural problem with the PDF.16:07.08 
Robin_Watts If you're building tools and you want to make them fit into a very small space, you often find that the c library functions (or the common functions between exes) are a significant part of the size of the total size of the binaries on disc.16:07.42 
  So you roll all the files together, and get the tools to start up through a main that checks argv[0] for what name it was invoked under.16:08.16 
  If it was 'ls' then you call the ls routines, if it was 'cat' then you call the cat routines, etc.16:08.34 
  People used to use it to get very small unix distros etc.16:09.09 
  It's a technique still used in embedded systems.16:09.19 
  Were it not for the size of the CMAPs/Fonts etc, we could get mupdf and all its tools on a floppy :)16:09.43 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: well in case what is mubusy ever grows into more than a single tool, mutools is probably better than mutool. Plus 'tool' has an an unfortunate usage in US slang as in 'you are such a TOOL'16:09.44 
Robin_Watts I'm happy with whatever - tor8 is the guy you need to convince.16:10.18 
  mubusy contains pdfclean, pdfinfo, pdfshow, pdfextract etc.16:10.54 
ray_laptop mutools or mupdftools are my votes (unless someone else has an inspiration).16:11.32 
  Robin_Watts: so, on windows if you want to have pdfclean, pdfinfo, pdfshow, pefextract you need 4 copies of the .exe :-(16:12.15 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: Yes. Or you call: mubusy clean ....16:12.40 
  we check argv[1] too :)16:12.47 
chrisl Surely the time for this discussion was like 8 months and two releases ago?16:12.51 
Robin_Watts I was quite happy having them all as separate exes and just having mubusy for the specialist people that wanted it.16:14.09 
ray_laptop chrisl: since I was using pdfclean and pdfinfo (old but useful versions) I didn't notice it surface, sorry.16:15.27 
chrisl ray_laptop: it was discussed at some length before the change was made.....16:16.16 
ray_laptop and if we are stuck with it, fine, but if you want to get an outside opinion, ask Scott or Miles which they prefer 'mubusy' or 'mupdftools'16:16.24 
  chrisl: really -- I'll check the IRC logs and see what I said back then.16:16.59 
chrisl It can't be "mupdftools" be cause it handles other formats, too, "mutool" isn't too great, either16:17.42 
ray_laptop frankly, even 'mu' is problematic enough for Scott to try to explain what it means16:18.02 
chrisl Well, lack of education isn't really our fault ;-)16:18.24 
ray_laptop mutool I agree (see above) mutools 16:18.27 
chrisl FWIW, I don't really see the problem of the separate executables, but since my involvement is so limited, I didn't feel like pushing my opinion16:19.34 
ray_laptop mutoolbox is another, if you want to keep the association with 'busybox' Frankly, 'busybox' is a lame name, too.16:19.34 
chrisl busybox is *extremely* well known in the embedded Linux world16:20.08 
Robin_Watts busybox is a particular linux implementation targetted at embedded devices.16:20.08 
ray_laptop chrisl: I MUCH prefer separate executables as well. You need them on windows anyway16:20.15 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: No, you don't.16:20.33 
kens We don't need separate executables16:20.36 
  just one and give it teh rigth first argument16:20.52 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: I looked at the explanation on Wikipedia of busybox.16:21.24 
chrisl Don't recent WinFS versions have something like a "real" symlink?16:21.40 
Robin_Watts "junction", but only for directories.16:22.37 
chrisl Oh, well, it could done with shortcuts, then16:23.04 
kens COUld use batch files if it bothers people ebough <shudder>16:23.57 
chrisl I would have thought shortcuts would be slightly less horrid16:24.30 
kens Yeah but those are .lnk files aren't they? Are they directly executable from teh command line ?16:25.04 
chrisl The "Target" field can be a complete command line, with options for the exe16:25.42 
ray_laptop kens: AFAIK the command line doesn't work with .lnk shortcuts. .bat is needed16:25.53 
kens Yes, but can you type 'mupdfclean.lnk' at teh command line ?16:26.01 
chrisl Hm, I guess not - that's pretty darned poor :-(16:26.30 
kens That' was what worried me16:26.38 
  Given that we more or less have to call 'whatever it is' from teh command line16:26.55 
chrisl channels marcosw......16:27.18 
  I know let's drop windows support :-)16:27.27 
kens I have to go, I'll pound my head against Acrobat some more tomorrow16:29.59 
chrisl Okay, so I now have GS building without needing the jbig2dec configure script - I just need to recheck Linux/PPC, MacOSX/PPC, MacOSX/x86 and MacOSX/x64.....16:32.17 
Robin_Watts chrisl: I can't help feeling you're doing this all wrong.16:33.10 
  Surely the right time for this is the last week in january? :)16:33.21 
chrisl No, that's far too early - the day after the release candidate would be best, I reckon......16:34.05 
Robin_Watts mvrhel: Have you been following the mails between Marti and myself?16:34.55 
mvrhel Robin_Watts: I sent a reply to you and Marti this morning16:35.10 
Robin_Watts Sorry, so you did.16:35.33 
  Right.16:35.57 
  I suspect Marti will argue that by keeping the ability to changeBuffersFormat, we reduce the opportunities for lcms2 to do pipeline optimisation.16:36.31 
  I don't have a clear enough view of the whole system to know whether pipeline optimisation can ever gain us anything, and if it can, whether it pays off the cost of having more links around.16:37.08 
mvrhel Robin_Watts: yes. that is a trade off that is not exactly clear to me either16:39.04 
Robin_Watts Ok. I suddenly don't feel so thick :)16:39.24 
henrys alexcher:I assume you saw the luratech response will you still be able to fix the bug. If not we'll get support.16:39.47 
mvrhel ray_laptop: were you able to get stuff set up with what I sent you regarding the clist. I have been poking at it a bit more this morning16:42.33 
  In the last potentially successful copy planes command the last plane is compressed16:43.36 
ray_laptop marcosw: I closed bug 693310 as a duplicate of 689805, but I don't understand how -dMaxBitmap would make any difference with the 'display' device16:49.51 
marcosw me neither. did you try it?16:50.21 
ray_laptop mvrhel: no, I am still trying to resolve the memory leak I have with transparency for cust 53216:50.40 
mvrhel ray_laptop: ok. I am stepping now through the reader16:51.02 
  I can see all the data and the next command in the buffer16:51.15 
ray_laptop marcosw: Oh, the comment 1 is the customer's words, not yours ???16:51.24 
mvrhel stepping through now to see how it is consumed16:51.26 
marcosw the -dMaxBitmap=30000000 mention in comment #1 is mine, the rest is from the customer.16:52.17 
mvrhel ray_laptop: ok I see that the third plane had the wrong number of bytes read16:54.33 
  compared to what was writtten16:54.42 
  one byte off16:54.55 
ray_laptop marcosw: how can -dMaxBitmap=30000000 do ANYTHING to the 'display' device ???16:57.50 
marcosw I don't know. Did you try it?16:58.05 
ray_laptop marcosw: no. did you ?16:58.20 
marcosw yes.16:58.26 
ray_laptop marcosw: on windows ? 16:58.40 
marcosw yes. windows 7 home premium.16:58.50 
ray_laptop marcosw: OK. I'll download the file and try it, but ...16:59.23 
marcosw I'll attach a screen shot to the bug report.16:59.35 
ray_laptop marcosw: either way I get "Error: /VMerror in --.begintransparencygroup--"17:01.44 
  marcosw: which is what I expect. I used: gswin32c -r300 -sDEVICE=display -dMaxBitmap=30000000 -sPAPERSIZE=letter c:/temp/Bug693310.pdf17:02.19 
  the VMerror is EXACTLY what I expect.17:02.51 
  marcosw: I am able to run with up to -r293 and that peaks out at about 1.8Gb RAM (from task manager)17:05.47 
marcosw right. now I'm getting the expected results as well. I wonder why it worked earlier… 17:06.11 
ray_laptop marcosw: thanks for making sure I'm not crazy. Maybe you didn't have the -r300 or something17:07.10 
Robin_Watts So we need a clist display device?17:08.35 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: yes, also for x11, ps2write and pdfwrite (when going to PDF < 1.4) and other 'vector' devices.17:10.05 
  that's what bug 689805 mentions.17:10.24 
  I have the concept mapped out, but have only started on a branch to do that.17:10.52 
  Robin_Watts: I want to wrap up cust 532 and the pdf14 clist optimization first (since cust 532 is moving to 9.06 and it doesn't have the pdf14 clist optimization that I did for them)17:11.49 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: cool.17:12.14 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: it will mean that the display device won't be able to update until the page is finished, but that happens anyway when the PDF has transparency.17:13.10 
alexcher henrys: Yes, I've seen Luratech response. I'm working on the problem.17:17.31 
sags @chrisl (for the logs) "Don't recent WinFS versions have something like a "real" symlink?" : Yes, on NTFS filesystems. Vista has mklink to create symbolic links. Much older are NTFS hardlinks "fsutil hardlink create new_filename existing_filename" ("new" and "existing" must be on the same volume).18:55.16 
ray_laptop quit19:06.12 
rayjj Robin_Watts: I looked in the logs and saw: [2012-05-10 04:27:58] <tor8> and I guess rename mubusy to mupdftool?21:42.16 
  and it looks like this is the first time we shipped the apps as mubusy (according to the logs). I still would like to consider mupdftools (or mutools if you want to not exclude xps)21:43.32 
  also, btw, the mupdf.com "manual" and "doc" links don't mention mubusy (so let's not start now) ;-)21:45.11 
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