| | <<<Back 1 day (to 2013/07/09) | 2013/07/10 |
| henrys | marcosw:I gave back one of guillaume's bugs but if you want me to talk to him let me know. | 03:40.00 |
| kens | chrisl ping | 07:37.56 |
| chrisl | kens: pong | 07:39.12 |
| kens | Does the pngalpha device do any kinf od anti-aliasing ? | 07:39.27 |
| chrisl | I don't really know - the naming "convention" suggests so (like x11alpha), but I never really looked. I always use the command line opts | 07:40.28 |
| kens | It kind of looks like it does | 07:40.35 |
| | Rather to my surprise | 07:40.42 |
| chrisl | kens: if the file is made of lots of clipped shapes, that could explain the "missing" aa | 07:42.20 |
| kens | Its several shading dictionaries | 07:42.32 |
| | THey are, of course, clipped to the filled path | 07:42.42 |
| | and yes, clips are never anti-aliased | 07:42.53 |
| chrisl | So, a *scaled device might be the answer | 07:43.12 |
| kens | Yes, and I sadi that on the stack overflow question he raised before seeing the bug report..... | 07:43.29 |
| chrisl | Oh, a prat :-( | 07:43.41 |
| kens | The odd thing is I cannot reproduce his output | 07:43.42 |
| | For me the output is fully anti-aliased, and at *much* lower resolution | 07:44.32 |
| chrisl | Possibly a bug that's been fixed? | 07:45.32 |
| kens | Its possible, I guess I shoudl try 9.07 | 07:45.49 |
| | just going to take a quick look at the content of the PDF file | 07:46.00 |
| | THere's definitely a complex clip in there | 07:46.37 |
| | 3 of tehm | 07:46.47 |
| chrisl | Is this a PDF? | 07:47.02 |
| kens | yes | 07:47.06 |
| chrisl | Any transparency? | 07:47.14 |
| kens | I don't think so no | 07:47.20 |
| | But the clip will prevent anti-aliasing of the shfill | 07:47.32 |
| chrisl | I wondered what would happen if we rendered the shfill into a group buffer, then rendered the group buffer when anti-aliasing was happening | 07:49.00 |
| kens | boggles | 07:49.22 |
| | It would probably work, I guess, but I think using a scaed driver would be easier :-) | 07:49.40 |
| | OK 9.07 does behave as described, the curretn development version doesn't | 07:52.07 |
| chrisl | So whatever it is has been fixed - sounds good :-) | 07:52.30 |
| kens | I'm not sure I would say it is 'fixed' | 07:52.41 |
| | The resolution is *way* too low | 07:52.47 |
| | Duh | 07:57.11 |
| | Now the current code behaves the same... | 07:57.11 |
| | OK I'm not going to worry about that, the current code now behaves as I woudl expect... | 07:57.19 |
| | Oh I must be tored, I've been using different filenames.... | 07:57.27 |
| Robin_Watts | the tor twins are here! | 09:49.08 |
| Robin_Watts | shoots off for a bit. | 09:49.45 |
| sebras | Robin_Watts: you would guess that tor0, tor1, tor1, tor2, tor3 would also show up some time... | 11:01.06 |
| Robin_Watts | kens, chrisl: Did you book flights yet ? | 12:21.38 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : not yet, but I saw the email | 12:22.39 |
| chrisl | Not yet, will look shortly | 12:23.41 |
| | Are you guys return on the Sunday? | 12:25.30 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: Yes, I think that's the plan. | 12:25.43 |
| kens | Well I wasn't planning on staying longer | 12:25.43 |
| chrisl | I couldn't remember when the show started | 12:26.13 |
| Robin_Watts | show starts sunday, according to Miles' mail. | 12:26.33 |
| | Looks like 593.45 | 12:26.47 |
| chrisl | Yep, I should go find my credit card...... | 12:27.34 |
| kens | Seems to be what mine comes up as | 12:28.01 |
| | Hmm, when I move to the next step, the far goes up by £1.... | 12:29.48 |
| Robin_Watts | Interesting. Spending miles (not Miles + Money), I can get economy out, PE back for 47500 miles and 286quid of taxes. | 12:33.24 |
| kens | Oh great, this time verified by visa doesn't even bother to show me a dialog | 12:35.19 |
| | I guess its broken | 12:35.25 |
| Robin_Watts | so, out on Thursday 5th, back on sunday 8th. | 12:41.14 |
| kens | yes 11 am out 18:00 back | 12:41.25 |
| Robin_Watts | 53D out | 12:42.57 |
| kens | I'm still fighting wiht it | 12:43.33 |
| | :-O | 12:43.47 |
| | Using chrome it verified my details without asking for my password..... | 12:44.03 |
| | Verified by Visa this is | 12:44.13 |
| Robin_Watts | 21D on the way back. | 12:44.43 |
| kens | Show off :-) | 12:44.52 |
| Robin_Watts | Now I'm going to ring them to see how much it'd cost to upgrade the outbound leg to PE too :) | 12:45.15 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : why did you choose such a far back row ? | 12:47.36 |
| | I can book seats as far forward as 42 | 12:47.57 |
| Robin_Watts | ok, 42D | 12:48.45 |
| kens | Well I shall have 43D then | 12:49.16 |
| | and 42D coming home | 12:50.04 |
| | Robin_Watts : the Virgin site is offering me PE both ways for an extra £468, no miles. | 12:53.08 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: yeah. It would cost me that much to get PE both ways, so I'll live with economy both ways. | 12:55.09 |
| | Apparently as well as extra legroom seats they now do 'seat plus' which is where you can pay to have the seat next to you empty. | 12:55.39 |
| | they said to ring again a few days before the flight as they might be selling things off then. | 12:56.00 |
| | lunchtime. | 12:56.12 |
| kens | seat plus sounds interesting, but what if the plane is full ? | 12:59.47 |
| kens | will probably upgrade to extra legroom at the airport again | 13:00.13 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: presumably they only offer seat plus if they can predict availability | 13:36.15 |
| kens | I guess, it would be annoying to find they'd sold the seat next to you anyway though | 13:36.38 |
| kens | thinks; I prefer extra legroom to width on the whole | 13:39.48 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: I think I'd prefer 2 seats. | 13:42.28 |
| kens | :-) | 13:42.29 |
| Robin_Watts | but then we have different builds :) | 13:42.29 |
| | hurrah. You know it's a good sign when you write a huge block of new code, and on the first run it dies on the very first line... | 13:44.23 |
| kens | just got hundreds of differences I didn't expect on my cluster run :-( | 13:48.22 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: When you were doing linearisation in gs, did you have any code to dump hint tables? | 14:52.55 |
| | ha. scared him away. | 14:53.15 |
| kens | The mer mention of linearisation crashes Miranda.... | 14:53.50 |
| Robin_Watts | yeah. | 14:54.00 |
| kens | I think I did, yes, but I doubt I still have it | 14:54.03 |
| | I'll quickly rummage around | 14:54.22 |
| Robin_Watts | Thanks. | 14:54.26 |
| | Table F.3: Item 2 is supposed to be the location of the first pages page object. | 14:54.51 |
| | And in pdf_reference17.pdf, as far as I can tell, it's not. | 14:55.03 |
| kens | I found something called PDFHintRead, but I don't remember it | 14:55.07 |
| | It looks too primitive to be useful | 14:55.34 |
| | It will dump that, let me rebuild it | 14:55.59 |
| | my code says the location of the first page's page object is 758197812 | 14:57.51 |
| | But all the numbers its dumping look wrong | 14:58.14 |
| | Ah, look slike it wants teh hint stream extracted | 14:58.39 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: Also, are we using the same pdf_reference17.pdf? :) | 14:59.09 |
| kens | That's a good question... | 14:59.19 |
| Robin_Watts | Mine is 32472771 bytes | 14:59.42 |
| kens | Hmm I'd have to decompress the hint stream before I could read it | 14:59.54 |
| | Mine says 32,431,662 | 15:00.24 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: Don't let me waste your time on this. feel free to mail me the code and be done with it :) | 15:00.29 |
| kens | The code is really dumb, I'm sure you could write your own faster | 15:00.50 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: I have written my own, that's the problem :)( | 15:01.02 |
| kens | Oh, OK then I'll mail you this, but its really stupid code, I'm not sure what I was suing it for | 15:01.20 |
| Robin_Watts | I suspect the file is wrong. | 15:01.46 |
| | but... | 15:01.53 |
| kens | Yes, because nobody uses hint streams :-) | 15:02.01 |
| | OK its on its way to you, 225 k rar, hope that format is OK | 15:05.08 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: I'll cope. Ta | 15:05.15 |
| | Gah. Linearised files are so broken. | 16:02.15 |
| | Page 2 of the file is at object 1, as you'd expect. | 16:02.32 |
| | It makes reference to a shared object down at 3904. | 16:02.34 |
| | 3904 being a font. Where is it's font descriptor? Presumably in the shared objects too, right? No. Its font descriptor is 9, its tounicode is 10, and its encoding is 11. | 16:03.44 |
| | So quite how that's supposed to be a 'shared' object I don't know. | 16:04.03 |
| | In fact... it's not shared. That font is only used on one page. | 16:05.27 |
| kens | So it shoudl be unique | 16:05.46 |
| Robin_Watts | Right, but it's in the shared object section of the file. | 16:06.03 |
| kens | But to be honest, I really don't think anyone produces well linearised files, because hte spec is so naff | 16:06.07 |
| chrisl | I've never found a consumer that actually uses all the of the linearisation stuff either...... | 16:07.18 |
| kens | Again, because nobody produces decently linearised files.... | 16:07.40 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: I've never found one that uses ANY of it. | 16:07.44 |
| | but sebras informs me that poppler does. | 16:07.51 |
| kens | Poppler reads it, I'm not cerrtain it *uses* it | 16:08.03 |
| chrisl | As far as I could find, poppler parses the tables, but doesn't use much of it | 16:08.20 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: but it uses some of it? | 16:08.39 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: I only looked at the hints table (is that what it's called?) in any detail - is parses that, didn't use it | 16:09.23 |
| | Mind, that was two or three releases ago, so....... | 16:11.26 |
| sebras | chrisl: hm... as far as I could see they are using the hints to locate the page object..? | 16:43.08 |
| | I might have misread the source of course, but I still believe it to be true. | 16:43.31 |
| | I'll have a closer look later today. | 16:43.38 |
| chrisl | sebras: you may well be right, but I could find where the table was parsed, but I never found it being used - it ignored the result, as far as I could tell. | 16:45.13 |
| | sebras: the other point being that the offsets it was reading were complete nonsense for all the files (from various sources) that I tried | 16:48.43 |
| Robin_Watts | well, popplers source has pointed me to the thing I needed. | 16:59.35 |
| | turns out they byte align more often than the spec suggests. | 16:59.47 |
| | and I am now getting plausible entries out. | 16:59.55 |
| | BUT I think popplers code is broken. | 17:00.08 |
| | in that it forces a value to 0 that it then relies on being non-zero. Joy. | 17:00.25 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: I rather assumed that poppler would start using the hint table (and fixing problems with their code, if required) when it looked like it might be useful a reasonable amount of the time. | 17:03.11 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: chicken and egg, innit. | 17:05.43 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: Exactly, and Adobe don't even bother to read it - and we think write nonsense anyway | 17:06.53 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: It's not entirely nonsense... | 17:07.15 |
| | Their files are far from optimal, but I think there is enough there to help us with progressive loading. | 17:07.35 |
| chrisl | TBH, if they'd wanted that kind of functionality, the format should have been streamable | 17:09.38 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: Yes, and in an ideal world the more food I eat the more handsome I'd become, but alas we have to work with the situation we have :) | 17:15.22 |
| ray_laptop | Robin_Watts: I saw in the logs that you were looking for something to dump the hint tables. We removed it (chrisl did last August), but there was gs/lib/dumphint.ps | 17:18.59 |
| | but the comment says that it was bit-rotted. | 17:19.27 |
| sebras | Robin_Watts: it was the byte alignment I was referring to the other day. | 17:23.30 |
| | Robin_Watts: there are comments in poppler about this not being in the spec. | 17:23.42 |
| | I assumed that this was the reason that you and kens got strange results. | 17:23.56 |
| ray_laptop | Does anyone know where we keep the 32000 spec(s) ? | 17:25.13 |
| Robin_Watts | ray_laptop: Physical copies? | 17:26.15 |
| ray_laptop | Robin_Watts: no, PDF. Does someone have one up on casper | 17:26.45 |
| Robin_Watts | I have pdf_reference17.pdf there, which is the latest non ISO version. | 17:27.05 |
| | I can copy PDF32000_2008.pdf there if you want. | 17:27.42 |
| ray_laptop | Robin_Watts: I have the Adobe spec and the 32000 supplement from Adobe. I was looking for the actual 32000 spec | 17:27.43 |
| | Robin_Watts: is that the ISO version ? If so, please do | 17:29.04 |
| Robin_Watts | copying now to my home dir. | 17:29.07 |
| ray_laptop | Robin_Watts: OK. Thanks | 17:30.07 |
| Robin_Watts | Or, from the horses mouth: http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/PDF32000_2008.pdf | 17:30.10 |
| ray_laptop | I thought ISO doesn't allow redistribution. Did they make an exception for Adobe ? (obviously passing it around inside the company that bought it is OK) | 17:31.45 |
| Robin_Watts | ray_laptop: I know not. | 17:33.23 |
| | uploaded. | 17:35.37 |
| henrys | so simon is now nda'd ⦠he never comes around to IRC? | 17:36.04 |
| Robin_Watts | This document you are now reading is a copy of the ISO 32000-1 standard. By agreement with ISO, Adobe Systems is allowed to offer this version of the ISO standard as a free PDF file on itâs web site. It is not an official ISO document but the technical content is identical including the section numbering and page numbering. | 17:36.44 |
| | henrys: I've never seen him here. | 17:36.53 |
| henrys | so I'll set up his account and one of the mupdf'er will give him instructions on running regressions and such? | 17:39.22 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Sure. In the email where you tell him the account details, invite him to irc, or say he can email me for help. | 17:39.58 |
| henrys | 10-4 | 17:40.18 |
| ray_laptop | Robin_Watts: the "Copyright Notice" on page 2 explains it: This document has been derived directly from the copyright ISO 32000-1 .... It is being made available from ... Adobe ... under agreement with ISO for those that do not need the official version containing the ISO logo and copyright notices. | 17:40.20 |
| | Robin_Watts: it also adds "The technical material is identical between this version and the ISO Standard" | 17:40.58 |
| | Robin_Watts: so, thanks for the link and uploading it. | 17:41.21 |
| Robin_Watts | gets dejavu :) | 17:41.47 |
| ray_laptop | oops. I was reading the spec, not the logs :-/ | 17:43.19 |
| Robin_Watts | Right. I've now got code that successfully extracts plausible looking data from the hints stream. | 18:14.27 |
| | Next step is to use that data... | 18:14.34 |
| sebras | Robin_Watts: chrisl: did you already look are the sources or is there still a point in me doing so? | 21:03.10 |
| mvrhel_laptop | bbiaw | 22:48.15 |
| Robin_Watts | sebras: I'm sorted, I think, thanks. | 22:55.15 |
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