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mvrhel_laptop found my spot color issue which was due to overprint simulation goof ups in the transparency code04:43.07 
  will fix tomorrow. caught a cold and need sleep04:43.18 
kens aha chrisl sneaked in while I was getting coffee07:59.10 
  chrisl I need some help today with TrueType font metrics if you can spare me some time please07:59.37 
chrisl I'm still feeling decidedly under the weather, I'll help if I can.....08:00.00 
kens I'm still on the track of this customer problem, and I've now come to the conclusion that the reason I can't solve the problem in pdfwrite is because there *is* no problem in pdfwrite....08:00.45 
Robin_Watts http://www.xkcd.com/08:00.46 
kens Yeah, I commented on that yesterday Robin_Watts08:01.00 
  chrisl let me mail you a file, I'm not sure if yo uhave it or not08:01.14 
Robin_Watts kens: Ah, I missed that yesterday for some reason.08:01.27 
kens tor7 grinned about it08:01.43 
  I shoudl have zipped the file, its bigger than I thought08:02.02 
chrisl I find that xkcd just a *little* close to the knuckle to actually be funny!08:02.09 
kens OK chrisl if you run the file I sent once with pdfwrite and once with the display device you'll see a load of numbers printed on teh back channel08:02.53 
  The important ones are the last set, the pair of arrays.08:03.18 
  These are the numbers passed into, and out out of, CDevProc08:03.37 
  If you compare the numbers from the display device to the pdfwrite ones you will see thay are quite different, especially the 3rd and 4th numbers08:04.12 
chrisl Seems to be taking a while to get here08:04.22 
kens My fault, its a 600k file and I thought it was small so I didn't zip it08:04.42 
  You 'may' have the file its teh 8f6459-13.ps one08:05.02 
  Anyway, the whole source of the problem is that the 4th entry in the array is *way* too big in the pdfwrite case, nearly 3 times bigger than it should be.08:05.46 
  The 'culprit' if I can call it that, is in zchar42.c, zchar42_et_cache() at around line 14308:07.14 
  THe comment here is :08:07.33 
  which stretch subglyphs. Uniting with FontBBox helps.08:07.34 
  The comment here is :08:07.53 
  " /* Note: The glyph bbox usn't useful for Dynalab fonts,08:07.54 
  which stretch subglyphs. Uniting with FontBBox helps."08:07.54 
  And it throws away the value from the glyph and substitutes the fontBBox value. WHIch is *much* too large for this glyph.08:08.34 
  So, the question for me then is how does this not cause a problem when rendering, how come the values passed to CDevProc are OK when trendering, but not when running pdfwrite.08:09.33 
chrisl Well, we probably don't use that code when rendering (FAPI), but FAPI does the same thing with the BBox, so.......08:10.23 
kens I tried with -dDisableFAPI and got yet another different set of numbers (but ones which work as well)08:10.57 
  and teh -dDisableFAPI *does* go through that code08:11.26 
  Oh, but in this case the FontBBox is different !08:11.47 
  Oho! If I set -dDisableFAPI with the pdfwrite case, then the numbers look correct08:12.44 
chrisl Hmm, in the FAPI code, that BBox expansion is limited to non-CID fonts.....08:13.31 
kens Yes, its somethgin to do with FAPI, the FontBBox isn't 'correct' when FAPI is enabled. Looks to me like its set for a 2048x2048 design grid08:13.32 
chrisl Erm, I don't think FAPI sets the FontBBox, I'll have to check08:14.36 
kens Its different with -dDisableFAPI, and its correct. Maybe FAPI *should* change the FontBBox08:15.12 
chrisl Arg, no it does set it - or "refines" it, which I never understood!08:15.26 
kens I think you are correct about FAPI not uising this code though.08:16.25 
chrisl FAPI calls zchar_set_cache() itself08:16.51 
  If you look at gs_fapi_prepare_font() it's got come crazy code in it which we talked about ages ago, and couldn't fathom it out08:17.46 
kens Hmm, well I get here from pdfwrite because I'm executing the CDevProc, which is triggered by returning to op_show_continue_dispatch() with a code of '3'08:17.57 
  which source file is that ?08:18.40 
chrisl gxfapi.c line ~32008:18.57 
  the size/size1 nonsense08:19.24 
kens Yes, I'm looking at it now08:19.44 
  At the moment its all Greek to me....08:19.52 
  Let me run the display device and this file to see what happens. BTW did you get the test file yet ?08:20.09 
chrisl No, hasn't arrived08:20.49 
kens :(08:20.58 
  Oh, I sent it to the wrong chris, oops08:21.26 
chrisl That wouldn't help!08:21.37 
kens Sent it again08:22.07 
chrisl Okay, FAPI is using the FontBBox straight out of Freetype08:22.32 
kens And if I do that, then it works. I'm inclined to ditch the craziness in there with 'unifying' the fontBBox08:23.14 
  But I'm worried by the DynaLab comment08:23.29 
  And teh FontBBox is really wrong as well08:24.05 
chrisl What happens if you run pdfwrite at, like, 144dpi?08:24.37 
kens With that code there ? its wrong in exactly the same way, I'm running at 72 dpi at the moment08:25.05 
  pdfwrite seems to be doing all the right stuff with the numbers its given, the problem is that the numebrs themselves are wrong.08:25.29 
chrisl OKay, I've got the FAPI/FT code doing some juggling with scaling and stuff, and I wondered if the bbox wasn't being scaled properly, but that suggests not08:26.16 
kens Hmm, whre are you looking now ?08:26.30 
chrisl in fapi_ft.c, but it looks like that's not important08:27.04 
  kens: so, in the FAPI case, we're not using the font BBox08:30.35 
kens OK if I look in the 'Refine FontBBox' then the BBox values look like they are scaled for a 2048x2048 design grid08:30.40 
  chrisl so where do the numbers for the CDevProc come from, direcly from the font ?08:31.12 
  iwe without the 'unifying FontBBox' nonsense in zchar42 ?08:31.28 
chrisl We "assemble" them in gs_fapi_do_char() in gxfapi.c08:32.04 
kens If ou are using the numbers directly supplied by the glyph (and not maximising them to the font BBox) then that will work just fine.08:32.41 
chrisl Specifically, the stuff to do with the font BBox is line ~153408:32.48 
kens Hmm, OK so you are doing the same trickery there08:33.13 
chrisl But not for CID fonts08:33.25 
kens Aha, well this is (of course) a CIDFont08:33.43 
  OK so maybe I cna apply the same hack08:34.00 
chrisl Yes, which is why I keep saying "but not for CID fonts"!08:34.02 
kens OPK I cna check the font type in zchar42_set_cache and if its 11 then its a CIDFont. Thing is, I would have thought the DynaLab fonts would be CID fotns too.08:35.09 
  Well, I guess I should do this and cluster push08:35.21 
  ANd if its OK I'll make the change and wait for people to shout at me08:35.33 
chrisl Well, the thing is, what's in FAPI isn't about Dynalab fonts, because Freetype sorts those out - that code is about other buggy fonts..... IIRC, the worst culprit there was a type 108:36.53 
kens I think I'll just have to go with this for now and see what happens. I'm still slightly concerned that the Font BBox is wrong, but I'll live with it for now.08:38.01 
  Of course I should probably have you do this, since its in fonts :-)08:38.44 
tor7 chrisl: the dynalab code in freetype just sets FT_IS_TRICKY (or some similar) flag you can check, and sadly their check is (was?) incomplete so we have to do another check in mupdf as well08:39.49 
  IIRC freetype doesn't spot dynalab subset fonts08:40.21 
kens tor7 do we have any examples in teh regression tests ?08:40.44 
tor7 kens: there should be some in the mupdf set08:41.04 
kens And those do get run with GS ?08:41.20 
chrisl tor7: I *think* it's better now - it seems to work for the examples we have. The "tricky" font flag is enough because if you run the hint program, you get the right metrics out.08:41.33 
tor7 no idea, you'd have to prod robin for details08:41.44 
kens seems to be needing a lot of help on this one.....08:42.01 
chrisl I believe we have at least one in the GS test set, because it's behaviour changed when FT's tricky test was changed08:42.32 
kens OK quick hack for testing, the numbers look plausible, and the output is correct08:42.38 
chrisl TBH, I think that size/size1 stuff in gs_fapi_prepare_font() is bollocks - which is why we could never understand it!08:43.02 
kens I suspect you may well be correct....08:43.18 
  OK *both* my test files work now, previously they were mutually exclusive08:43.47 
  Now for a cluster run, and I'll open a bug report at the same time08:44.08 
  One day I shold look into whether we cna get FAPI to return the metrics stuff, so pdfwrite can do without all this.08:45.09 
chrisl tor7: actually, now I think about it, the dynalab checking in FT in (currently) moot in the GS, because we (currently) always have bytecode hinting on08:56.31 
  "FT is (currently) moot"08:56.49 
tor7 chrisl: right, then nevermind what I said :)08:56.57 
  in mupdf we use the dynalab test to turn on hinting at a huge size, so that hinting in practice doesn't affect the glyphs08:57.46 
  hint at 1000pts, render scaled down to the real size08:58.17 
chrisl tor7: the biggest problem I had was a "tricky" font with a broken (IIRC) font program, and convincing FT to let me render a "notdef" without any hinting at all.08:58.42 
kens OK so the only file that shows a difference exhibits a preogression :-)09:09.58 
chrisl kens: the FAPI font BBox is being left in "font units" :-(09:11.25 
kens Aha, then that's the problem I think.09:11.39 
chrisl Yes, the problem is that we don't have access to the "units_per_EM" value when we set it09:12.15 
kens Hmm, well I'll leave that problem for you :-) This one has been hard enough.....09:12.47 
chrisl kens: fixing the scaling of the font bbox fixes the customer's file09:22.55 
kens chrisl I thought it would. I think it would be better to fix it that way, if you are reasonably confident that you have a fix.09:23.38 
chrisl I need to cluster test it, but I think this is the best way09:24.05 
kens I agree completely, I won't commit my change then, I'll wait.09:24.25 
  Its not been a total loss, I did fix the WMode=1 and no Metrics2 silliness.09:25.06 
chrisl I still don't know what that size/size1 crap is all about :-(09:25.34 
kens Me neither, but I wouldn't change it without a reason either09:25.57 
  Hmm, quite a few differences :-(09:54.56 
chrisl Not as many as I had feared.09:56.38 
  I find it annoying that PS/PDF runs at 300dpi and PCL at 600dpi, it makes it hard to filter out duplicate tests09:58.19 
kens Hmm yes. FWIW my change only had one diff09:58.39 
  Bug691824.ps is a progression if that comes up09:59.11 
chrisl It is listed, yes. I'm a little surprised about the PCL diffs, though10:00.00 
kens Iwas frankly astonished to see those10:00.16 
  But lets see what your bmpcmp throws up10:00.34 
chrisl That's not good :-(10:05.21 
kens Nope, not good at all10:05.34 
  I woner if that's a pdfwrite problem or not10:06.03 
  Bug692242.pdf looks wrong before and better now though, possibly its wrong both ways10:07.48 
  No bizareely the partial text is supposed to be there10:08.42 
  THe PCL ones seem to be colour shifts, I can't see how that can be affected by the font change. Is your source up to date ?10:10.42 
chrisl Yes, I just pulled fresh before doing the cluster run10:11.07 
kens Odd then. But I now see some of them are the same missing glyphs10:11.21 
  I bet the FontBBox is now small and GS applies it as a clip (Acrobat doesn't)10:11.57 
chrisl That would be *very* bad :-(10:12.37 
kens quick way to check is to run one of the simple files through and look at the font BBox10:13.08 
  You might need -dCompressFonts=false10:13.21 
  A lot of the diffs are single pixel shifts in position, or these weird colour changes10:14.22 
chrisl The pixel shifts are what I expeted10:14.49 
  expected10:14.52 
kens Yes, I'm happy with those10:14.58 
  I cna't see how changing the Font BBox can cause colour changes10:15.17 
chrisl I don't understand how the glyph clipping affects *some* sections of text, and not others - seems strange :-(10:16.32 
kens Hmm, that's really odd. 15-04.bin.pdf at 72 dpi drops a whole line, btu the others (same font) are OK10:16.39 
  wow, 23-02.bin actually looks like an improvement10:18.08 
  There's something really screwy going on with clipping though10:19.24 
  As far as I can tell, the clipping problems only happen if the device is pdfwrite or ps2write10:20.48 
  All the others are colour changes or pixel position shifts10:21.02 
chrisl It looks that way, yes, which I find really odd :-(10:21.21 
kens Here's a weird one, c329.bin.pbmraw.600.1 the original looks to be opaque, the current seems to be a mask10:22.11 
  Same with C32610:22.43 
Amr Hello, I am facing a problem during building the latest version 1.3 of the mupdf10:23.14 
kens I don't know which is correct10:23.14 
  chrisl want to send me a copy of the changes you made ? I can have a poke with pdfwrite10:24.06 
Amr I have downloaded the source from the website, extracted it and opened the Win32 folder to build it on the VS10:24.11 
  but during the build process it gives me 9 successful build and 3 failed10:25.09 
chrisl kens: http://git.ghostscript.com/?p=user/chrisl/ghostpdl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d44452f310:26.23 
kens OK Let me see.10:26.39 
chrisl Amr: source for what? GS, GhostPDL, MuPDF??10:26.52 
kens He syas MuPDF chrisl10:27.00 
Amr MuPDF10:27.01 
chrisl Oh, sorry, missed that - paging tor7, Robin_Watts......10:27.38 
kens and paulgardiner10:27.45 
Amr I am waiting anyone of them to replay10:28.40 
tor7 Amr: which 3 failed?10:28.54 
  if you do "build all" with the MSVC project it will also try to build several optional targets,10:29.21 
Amr ok, let me collect the 3 and send to you, just a second 10:29.37 
tor7 like the javascript and curl enabled applications10:29.39 
  if you don't have the binary libraries for those installed in the "thirdparty" folder, you will get some errors10:30.03 
  but the main "mupdf.exe" should still be built just fine10:30.14 
Amr no no I have the thirdparty lib. and it's already included in the extracted file10:30.50 
Robin_Watts mupdf-curl, mupdf-v8, mujstest-v8 will fail.10:31.24 
Amr YESSSS 10:31.43 
  Why?10:31.47 
Robin_Watts Because you haven't installed v8 or libcurl, at a guess :)10:32.05 
  Those are optional things that aren't included in the standard distribution.10:32.23 
tor7 Amr: we don't include v8 and curl in the standard distribution because a) they're HUGE, and b) they're optional10:32.42 
Robin_Watts Unless you're specifically looking for http operation, or javascript, you won't need them.10:33.11 
Amr are they important to the search feature in the MuPDF?10:33.25 
Robin_Watts no.10:33.30 
Amr coz I need the newest version as it support searching in Arabic10:33.56 
Robin_Watts Then you're fine with what you've got.10:34.10 
Amr but after I build it, some errors appears in Arabic search!10:34.23 
tor7 Amr: I don't believe we support arabic input in the windows app though :(10:34.40 
Amr I meant for the Android App10:35.00 
  I can write the Arabic word in a reversed order to find it in the pdf file10:35.26 
tor7 Amr: right! for android if you find search errors with arabic, we'd really love some help in fixing it.10:35.36 
Amr I really want to, the MuPDF on the Google play support LTR and RTL search10:36.44 
tor7 Amr: yeah, I've written some code to reverse the pdf glyphs when extracting the text for search, so that the text should be in logical order. that code may well be buggy, though, it's not extensively tested (and I don't know enough arabic to be able to tell...)10:37.10 
Amr ok, my question is... why the version I build on my own seems different in the search process?10:38.19 
  it's not similar to the one on the Google play?10:38.33 
kens chrisl the text isn't even reaching the output PDF file in the case I'm looking at, loosk like its elided before getting there10:38.40 
chrisl kens: is the page rotated?10:38.59 
kens chrisl no, its upright10:39.06 
tor7 I'll leave that question to Robin_Watts10:39.06 
Robin_Watts Amr: The version on google play is an earlier version.10:39.26 
kens I'm just about to start digging to find out why pdfwrite thinks it can drop the text. I'm assuming it thinks its clipped10:39.30 
Robin_Watts It's before tor7's R2L changes I think.10:39.40 
chrisl kens: I'm looking at t332.bin, which says: "Verify that SetPageRotation does not affect the current clip path", and the glyphs are clipped10:40.06 
kens I'm using Bug687457.pdf where the bar code vanishes entirely. I've reduced the file to just the barcode10:40.43 
Amr it was updated in " May 28, 2013"10:41.09 
  isn't this the 1.3 version?10:41.20 
Robin_Watts Amr: Then, yes.10:41.37 
  It would have been the version current in git at that time.10:41.53 
kens chrisl I'm seeing that the glyph bbox has ury < lly so pdfwrite drops it10:42.47 
  Hmm FOntBBox is very small10:43.28 
Amr then why the version on the Google play allows me to find any arabic word I want when I type it on the reversed order but when I build it, it doesn't?10:43.38 
Robin_Watts Amr: I don't know.10:43.54 
  You could try backtracking to that date and building there?10:44.06 
chrisl kens: possibly not being scaled with the font?10:44.33 
kens chrisl the font matrix is multiplied with it, looks OK so far10:44.47 
Amr this is where I downloaded the src: https://code.google.com/p/mupdf/downloads/list10:44.51 
Robin_Watts Amr: Oh, sorry, I thought you had checked out from git.10:45.13 
chrisl kens: what's the font type?10:45.32 
kens 4210:45.43 
Amr no problem10:45.47 
kens regular TrueType10:45.51 
chrisl Hmm, can you send me the cut down file?10:46.02 
Amr that's why I am confused10:46.22 
kens chrisl one second.10:46.29 
  chrisl on its way. The problem seems to be in gdevpdte.c at about line 422 where it calculates the bbox10:47.31 
Amr Robin_Watts: any ideas then?10:48.10 
kens chrisl The FontBBox is 0 0 0.00074 0.0007510:48.44 
Amr why that difference between the one on the Google play and the one I build?10:49.00 
kens WHich sort of looks like 0 0 0.001 0.001 divided by 210:49.10 
chrisl kens: that seems odd :-(10:49.17 
Robin_Watts Amr: None at all. I am not aware of any changes that have happened between then and now in that area.10:49.28 
kens chrisl its certainly very small10:49.31 
Robin_Watts Well, I fixed some reflow stuff, but that shouldn't have made a difference.10:49.47 
  RTL stuff is tor7's baby, not mine, sorry.10:49.59 
Amr can't you then send me the src you created the version on the Google play?10:50.26 
  if you think that may make a difference10:50.47 
Robin_Watts Amr: To get that source you want to clone our repo.10:51.26 
  That way you can change to any date you want.10:51.33 
kens chrisl that looks like a red herring, ignore me10:52.00 
  I'm going to stash and rebuild the old code for comparison10:52.28 
chrisl kens: If I remove the size/size1 nonsense, the barcode appears.......10:52.33 
kens gibbers10:52.42 
Amr you think if I cloned it then it will be different from the one on your website?10:54.03 
Robin_Watts Amr: The one on the website is a snapshot from the git at a given time.10:54.47 
  The git will enable you to move back and forward in history, getting to any of our snapshots, or when we built for the app store etc.10:55.12 
chrisl kens: it also looks like the PXL test I was looking at is "correct" without that nonsense10:55.20 
Robin_Watts If you can find when we broke it, it makes fixing it easier :)10:55.26 
kens Oh dear, maybe we have found a good reson to kill it10:55.35 
  chrisl without the changes the font BBox is 2048 times bigger, or thereabouts, which explains the problem10:56.19 
chrisl I'm wondering if it was a hack because whoever did it didn't understand the units the BBox was being returned10:56.30 
kens chrisl I suspect you may be correct, an early and misguided attempt to fix the same problem.10:56.50 
Amr good, and if I could I would be able to give you a final solution to the Arabic Search to make it works 100%10:56.53 
Robin_Watts Amr: That would be much appreciated.10:57.09 
kens chrisl I guess the obvious thing is a cluster run with that removed as well10:57.12 
chrisl kens: of course, I haven't checked that the customer files still works like that, so......10:57.28 
Amr I just need some help from you to be sure that I am cloning it in the right way10:58.17 
kens chrisl I guess that's worth checking, but japan1.ps didn't show up as different either, and tis a similar file.10:58.47 
Amr can you tell me just quick steps to clone it?10:58.56 
chrisl kens: customer file does still work with the size/size1 crud removed10:59.16 
kens chrisl I'm more concenred that removing the code will break something else10:59.23 
  But that's good news at least ;-)10:59.32 
chrisl It's running on the cluster now.10:59.41 
kens OK then I will have an early lunch10:59.50 
  back in a bit10:59.59 
chrisl Yeh, I need to go buy some lunch - my fridge it MPT :-(11:00.15 
tor7 Amr: git clone --recursive git://git.ghostscript.com/mupdf.git11:00.48 
Amr tro7: I should write this command in the git bash right?11:03.50 
tor7 Amr: yes.11:05.07 
Amr ok, I did but it told me that destination path "mupdf" already exists, how to remove that to be able to clone it again?11:06.28 
Robin_Watts Amr: You already have a directory called mupdf there, right?11:08.35 
  Either delete that first, or...11:08.51 
Amr yes11:08.51 
Robin_Watts git clone --recursive git://git.ghostscript.com/mupdf.git mupdf.git11:09.01 
  That will check out the git thing into mupdf.git11:09.15 
  s/check out/clone/11:09.24 
kens chrisl that's a much happier looking set of diffs. I don't understand the PXL ones but I'm betting they are colour shifts11:14.32 
Amr Okay, i deleted it and I am cloning it right now11:14.48 
  okay, I have cloned it11:24.16 
Amr_ Robin_Watts: now I am going to open the Win32 folder and build the project11:29.22 
Robin_Watts Amr_: That will build you the latest version.11:29.34 
  You probably want to go back to 13 May first.11:29.44 
Amr_ how?11:29.54 
Robin_Watts sorry, May 28th.11:30.03 
  git checkout 600053811:30.35 
Amr_ how to go back to May 28th?11:30.35 
  k11:30.40 
Robin_Watts git submodule update --init11:30.51 
  Then you should be back pretty much exactly with the source I built the google play release with.11:31.20 
Amr_ you sure from the command: git checkout 6000538?11:32.23 
Robin_Watts Yes.11:32.40 
  That, then git submodule update --init11:32.51 
Amr_ it's giving me after I wrote the git checkout 6000538 this error: fatal: not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git11:34.33 
Robin_Watts cd mupdf.git11:35.03 
Amr_ ok I wrote the two commands11:36.37 
  now I open the Win32 and build it from the VS?11:36.55 
kens chrisl bug689677.xl is a progression, text that was missing (and is present with teh PCL rendering to display) now renders properly. 16-05.ps was wrong before and wrong now i a subtly different way, I don't propose to worry about it. C311.bin looks closer now to the PCL display device result, IMO teh previous one was too skinny. C318 and C319 look like progressions, I think the text was previously missing and now is present. Same for C32911:40.40 
Robin_Watts Amr_: Yes.11:41.27 
Amr_ ok, I build it on VS with 7 succeeded, 3 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped11:45.14 
  now I am going to open Cygwin and use ndk to complete the build11:45.37 
Robin_Watts ok.11:46.01 
  Well, cygwin + ndk to do the next stage of the build.11:46.36 
chrisl kens: that looks pretty convincing to me!11:46.45 
kens chrisl ignore bug687603.ps its good enough, may even be better now, bug691824.ps is a progression, japan-.ps is close enough11:46.49 
Robin_Watts Then you use the sdk to complete it.11:46.52 
kens chrisl the only ones that puzzle me are the colour changes11:47.15 
chrisl Yes, those are bemusing.....11:47.57 
Robin_Watts kens: random thought... are you up to date?11:48.11 
kens Robin_Watts : its chris' dump11:48.19 
  chrisl looking at PLTT7SCC.BIN the new result looks more correct than the reference11:48.39 
chrisl I pulled the code about an hour ago11:48.50 
kens The text is supposed to be darker11:48.54 
  I think the same is true of PWEP5SC1.BIN11:51.48 
Amr_ Okay Robin_Watts: the build is complete, now I am going to import it to Eclipse and see if it's working like the version on the Google play or not11:52.26 
Robin_Watts cool.11:52.39 
kens chrisl I think we should go ahead. The PCL colour shifts seem to be negligible or arguably progressions, and tehre are a fair number of genuine progressions in there. The only diffs I can't be sure of seem to be in rasterops and they don't work right anyway11:56.20 
chrisl kens: okay, I'm going to finish lunch, then compose a suitable commit message, then I'll push11:57.19 
kens OK when you've done that I'll tell teh customer.11:57.32 
  BTW there's one change that seems to be a major progression with teh colour changes, 23-02.bin11:58.01 
  It looks like the 'halftone dots' are really text and they are now much biigger, and therefore more correct11:58.35 
Amr_ Robin_Watts: this is weird, it works but not the same way of the version on google play 11:59.24 
  it's not accurate like the google play version11:59.44 
Robin_Watts Amr_: Well, at this stage I think you need to talk to tor7. You need to describe exactly how he can reproduce the problems (probably an example file, plus step by step instructions of what he should do to reproduce the issue).12:01.11 
  BUT... you may need to wait for tor7 to have a suitable time in his schedule to fit this in.12:01.30 
Amr_ I don't need to write the Arabic word in a reversed order, in this version I can write it without reversing it, but when I hit search, it finds the words but doesn't highlight them correctly, there is shifting in the highlighting12:02.21 
  mmm... ok :)12:02.28 
kens chrisl I've eyeballed all the diffs now, and checked them against the originals where I needed to. IMO your change is a well worthwhile improvement, quite apart from the customer bug. A good number of files are improved, and the only ones I cannot be sure of are either terribly minor, or rasterops. And as a bonus you get rid of that nasty hacky code we couldn't understand.12:02.43 
Robin_Watts wonders why his new Type3 font -> SVG code isn't producing any output, then realises that he's not written code to convert imagemasks to svg yet.12:02.51 
tor7 Amr_: you can try selecting text to copy and seeing if the selected text matches what you paste12:04.56 
Amr_ tro7: ok I selected text and copied it to the search bar but another text was copied not what I selected, I tried this several times but the same results and when I click search on what was copied, it doesn't find anything12:09.44 
  so, it's not matching what I paste12:11.35 
paulgardiner Amr_: Did you tap the "tick" button after sellecting text?12:13.30 
Amr what is the "tick" button?12:25.02 
  paulgardiner: what is the tick button?12:27.23 
paulgardiner The rightmost button on the top bar. It appears when you tap the copy-to-clipboard button. If that makes no sense, I may have misunderstood what you are attempting to do.12:28.34 
Amr ok, yes I do12:29.46 
chrisl kens: pushed12:30.45 
  kens: if you could pull the code, and double check the customer's file, I'd appreciate it.12:32.23 
paulgardiner Amr: if you then paste what's in the clipboard into notepad (say), does it corespond to the text you selected from the document page?12:33.39 
Amr paulgardiner: yes i do12:33.46 
  no it doesn't match12:34.35 
  paulgardiner: I just copied it to my memo app on the android device and it didn't match what I selected12:35.24 
paulgardiner Is it another part of the document, or just random garbage?12:36.01 
  Or some text you may have selected earlier using a different app on the same device?12:36.34 
kens chrisl sorry was out shopping, will do pull and check now12:37.07 
  I'll also double check withteh original file12:37.33 
Amr part of the document is correct and the rest is Arabic words but was not selected 12:39.33 
kens chrisl the cut down file looks fine, the customer's original is certainly very much improved. There is a slight vertical difference when compared with Distiller's output, but if they complain about that it'll be my problem I think (I hope they don't).12:42.37 
chrisl kens: thanks12:43.44 
kens Thanks for sorting it out for me ;-)12:44.00 
paulgardiner Amr: okay, that's not too surprising. I don't think we expect that to be fully working yet.12:45.02 
chrisl It's nice to get rid of another piece of "WTF code" in FAPI!12:45.20 
kens Absolutely :-)12:46.06 
Amr paulgardiner: but how the Arabic search is working on the google play version? :D although it's the same that I have downloaded its src12:46.47 
  the version of google play is perfect in the Arabic search, if I could get its src correctly, I can solve the Arabic problem for you forever12:47.55 
paulgardiner Are you sure you have checked out your git working copy to match the date of play version? And you have no local source changes?12:49.16 
kens And done a clean rebuild....12:49.29 
Amr Yes I am 100% sure, I made it step by step with Robin_Watt to ensure that I am getting it right12:50.20 
paulgardiner Ah yes. Good call kens. If using eclipse you need to clean the java build too. If not using eclipse, there could be a similar requirement, but I'm unsure what.12:51.18 
kens has been bitten by that one before....12:51.43 
Amr I am using Eclipse, how to clean the java build then?12:52.00 
  you mean just choose clean from the project tab in Eclipse?12:52.49 
paulgardiner Yep12:54.09 
Amr ok, I did and ran it again but it showed me the same problem which it's not working the same way of the version on google play12:56.08 
  paulgardiner, I noticed something now, the statement I copy and paste to the clipboard, it pasted the text but with missing middle words12:58.18 
  the last word is always copied 12:58.38 
  but some middle words don't12:58.48 
paulgardiner You could try checking out from git vesions from a week either side of the current date to see if you can get behaviour to match the google play version that way.13:00.24 
Amr this is also what I did with Robin_Watt13:01.08 
paulgardiner Sorry, I think I've run out of ideas too.13:01.41 
Amr can't you build it and open an Arabic file?13:02.59 
Robin_Watts Amr: As I said earlier, you need to give us clear instructions.13:07.04 
  Give us an arabic file that shows the problem.13:07.13 
  Tell us what to search for or to attempt to cut/paste.13:07.25 
  Given that none of us speaks arabic, you need to be very clear in your explainations.13:07.43 
Amr ok, i will upload that file and send you the link13:07.55 
Robin_Watts Amr: Please use a bug.13:08.17 
  Go to bugs.ghostscript.com13:08.24 
Amr ok, sorry13:08.28 
  Robin_Watt: http://bugs.ghostscript.com/show_bug.cgi?id=69470113:33.37 
Robin_Watts Todays WTF from the mupdf source: if (pix->colorspace != fz_device_gray(ctx) || pix->colorspace != fz_device_rgb(ctx))13:33.49 
  Amr: Thanks.13:34.28 
  oh, buggering SVG strikes again.13:55.29 
  In order to do an imagemask, I need to send <mask id="something"><image ...></mask> then I need to fill the mask... <rect ... mask=url(#something)/>14:02.44 
  BUT... if I'm in the middle of defining a symbol (say for a type 3 font), the definition of "something" is ignored, so nothing gets drawn :(14:03.12 
tor7 Robin_Watts: oh...14:04.45 
  is the order of symbols relevant in svg?14:05.14 
Robin_Watts I think I need to define before use.14:05.32 
  Let me test that.14:05.47 
tor7 I think you're just going to have to bite the bullet and do buffering of the current item you're generating14:05.47 
  so that you can output dependent items beforehand14:06.08 
Robin_Watts Maybe order isn't important.14:06.40 
tor7 but if the order doesn't matter, you could postpone outputting the image mask until after the type3 glyph symbol14:06.51 
Robin_Watts tor7: Yeah. That would enable me to keep just generating as I go, with a 'definition' buffer that would get periodically flushed.14:08.18 
  I'll give that a go. Thanks.14:08.59 
mvrhel_laptop good morning15:00.29 
kens Hi Michael15:00.34 
mvrhel_laptop morning kens15:00.42 
ray_laptop morning, all15:00.58 
Robin_Watts morning15:00.59 
kens Hi also ray_laptop15:01.04 
henrys mupdf meeting time.15:01.11 
tor7 whoa. already? day's just got started :(15:01.33 
henrys should we just have 1 meeting now where everyone goes to both?15:02.05 
kens Please no :-(15:02.17 
Robin_Watts We should have 2 meetings, and everyone should go to both. We'll just do them at the same time.15:02.55 
mvrhel_laptop just merge them all at 9:00 am PDT?15:02.56 
Robin_Watts Should we have a meeting about the meetings?15:03.33 
henrys mvrhel_laptop: yes that was my thinking15:03.41 
mvrhel_laptop henrys: that would be nice for me. 8:00 has gotten tricky with school started15:04.03 
  any other opinions?15:04.37 
henrys kens doesn't seem crazy about the idea.15:04.38 
tor7 start at 8:30 so ken doesn't have to stay later, in case we run late?15:04.45 
paulgardiner I'll need to reorganise things to stay much past 5pm on a Tues15:04.46 
mvrhel_laptop he still only goes to one meeting15:04.47 
kens yes but it takes twice as long that way15:05.01 
Robin_Watts Merging the 2 meetings is likely to make the meeting go longer, which is a problem for ken15:05.05 
mvrhel_laptop oh I see15:05.11 
kens and 50% of it I have nothing to contribute15:05.11 
mvrhel_laptop I could do 8:30, but I might be a few minutes late occasionally15:05.37 
Robin_Watts Would it make sense to move the gs meeting half hour earlier, then have the mupdf one after that?15:05.41 
mvrhel_laptop that would be a problem for paul right?15:06.01 
ray_laptop 8:30 _should_ be OK for me.15:06.04 
Robin_Watts no, that would be bad for paul and tor.15:06.05 
kens meetings on different days ?15:06.22 
Robin_Watts I believe there are other meetings on other days already.15:06.57 
henrys kens:I actually wanted to do say 1 45 minute meeting.15:07.01 
paulgardiner Tues and Thurs are the only awkward days to staying past 515:07.08 
  ... for me I mean15:07.16 
kens henrys it 'might' be possible, Melanie has changed horse share, so Tuesdays might be a bit more flexible, but I don't know yet15:07.53 
henrys I think ray_laptop and I get up early not sure about mvrhel_laptop but if we went to 7 Pacific would that work?15:09.13 
mvrhel_laptop from 7 to 7:45?15:09.50 
kens Anything that doesn't run past 17:30 UK time is fione by me in any event15:09.51 
ray_laptop I get up early (6:00am Pacific) most days, but I have to take the kids to school at ~7:15 -- back home by about 7:3015:10.26 
henrys mvrhel_laptop: yes I thought that would not interfere with the school run15:10.28 
mvrhel_laptop actually 7:30 to 8:15 would be about perfect. 15:10.52 
  which lines up with ray_laptop15:11.13 
ray_laptop I have one school run at 7:15am, return 7:30 and the other at 8:15 return about 8:40 15:11.31 
mvrhel_laptop mine is the same15:11.39 
ray_laptop but on Tuesdays, my wife take the late run, so I'm good to go after 7:3015:12.22 
kens Current time is 08:15 there ?15:13.10 
henrys kens: yes15:13.19 
  9:15 for me but I don't want to complicate the issue.15:13.38 
kens Fine by me, if its OK with ray and michael15:13.39 
henrys I figure earlier is better for all UK folks15:13.58 
kens henrys just checking that PDT was what I thought it was ;-)15:13.59 
Robin_Watts Anytime is fine with me.15:14.30 
  Have we now moved to be bang in the middle of tor7's dinner time?15:14.53 
henrys okay 15 minutes to do that actually I thought it would be worse15:14.58 
ray_laptop so, it's 8:15. That means the meeting is now over ? ;-) 15:15.06 
Robin_Watts http://ghostscript.com/~robin/out4.svg15:16.02 
tor7 Robin_Watts: I've already scheduled late dinners on tuesdays, moving meetings to an earlier time slot is only more convenient15:16.12 
henrys tor7:we have on the agenda cmyk output and some customer interest, how far off is that?15:16.15 
kens Robin_Watts : that looks quite nice, and reasonably quick to render15:16.26 
Robin_Watts kens: Only the (C) symbol is type 3.15:16.42 
tor7 not any slower than the stuff with path based fonts15:16.55 
kens It does look a bit rough15:16.55 
  The copyright symbol that is15:17.04 
Robin_Watts kens: It's an imagemask. Looks better in chrome than in IE.15:17.14 
kens some odd baseline stuff going on with the text too15:17.26 
  "This thesis..."15:17.33 
Robin_Watts kens: yeah, I think the maths is right, the svg engines just aren't perfect.15:17.53 
tor7 The (C) symbol looks like it's been rendered with nearest neighbor sampling on firefox15:17.54 
kens Robin_Watts : I guessed it might be that15:18.04 
  Let me try zooming in15:18.12 
henrys Robin_Watts:maybe the spacing is a bit off - try highlighting Atomistic - but anyway nice!15:18.18 
Robin_Watts kens: Let me know if you figure out how :)15:18.25 
kens ctrl+15:18.35 
  It looks better that way15:18.45 
tor7 Robin_Watts: the baseline stuff, could that be related to the shifting you do to reposition the glyphs in a positive bbox?15:18.45 
Robin_Watts henrys: The text isn't text.15:18.58 
  It's paths, with 'alpha =0' text overprinted so you can select it.15:19.14 
  hence the boxes for the highlight are calculated from glyphs in the wrong font.15:19.26 
kens At maximum zoom its 'almost' all right, and the copyright is much nicer15:19.39 
Robin_Watts hence the wierd highlight stuff.15:19.42 
  I claim that I'm doing it right, and the renderer is getting it wrong, so I propose not to worry :)15:20.01 
kens Robin_Watts : I strongly suspect you are correct15:20.22 
Robin_Watts tor7: It looks much better now than it did before I was doing that shifting.15:20.22 
kens THe fact that it looks better when zoomed makes me suspect the rendering engine anyway15:20.52 
Robin_Watts henrys: cmyk output...15:20.54 
tor7 Robin_Watts: could you set the shifting at a fixed (per font) value to see if it improves?15:21.06 
Robin_Watts we can do cheap and crap cmyk output by converting from rgb -> cmyk at the end.15:21.12 
tor7 improves the baseline even-ness that is15:21.13 
henrys Robin_Watts: if you copy paste it the spaces disappear entirely.15:21.26 
Robin_Watts henrys: right. There are no spaces in the original PDF.15:21.48 
henrys Robin_Watts: so that would have to be done heuristically if at all.15:22.06 
kens Chrome is better right from the off with that file15:22.08 
Robin_Watts henrys: Indeed.15:22.14 
kens With Chrome some levels of zoom are good, some are nasty15:22.46 
Robin_Watts If we want to do 'proper' cmyk, then we'd need to do 'proper' color management, right?15:22.59 
henrys Robin_Watts: it's an agenda item so I thought cmyk was a "defined" project.15:23.13 
Robin_Watts I was planning to ask at the meeting if I should go ahead and mail marti about the lcms2 threading problems and whether he'd be up for paid work to fix it.15:23.38 
tor7 we discussed rendering to (our existing) devicecmyk and finding the bugs and holes in the path plottingc15:23.48 
Robin_Watts I believe Michael was thinking that he would be seeing him in November and now he's not going to,15:24.06 
tor7 just to see that we can do non-rgb and non-gray rendering with mupdf15:24.09 
Robin_Watts tor7: Ah, right.15:24.15 
  Well, I can certainly look into that next if we want.15:24.29 
mvrhel_laptop Robin_Watts: is he aware of the issue15:24.30 
  ?15:24.33 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: and handle proper overprint15:24.34 
Robin_Watts mvrhel_laptop: Yes, he's aware of the issue.15:24.43 
tor7 ray_laptop: overprint? mwuahaaa :)15:24.52 
Robin_Watts He wasn't keen on fixing it (he just planned to document it as a known problem).15:25.04 
mvrhel_laptop I see15:25.12 
Robin_Watts I'd like to suggest a 'neat' way of fixing it that won't break compatability with existing apps.15:25.24 
  I spent some time over the weekend playing with revising the headers etc.15:25.41 
henrys so what exactly is the cmyk output item on the agenda and why is it assigned to tor7 if it require heavy handed color management. I was under the impression something simpler was in the works.15:26.11 
mvrhel_laptop so are we thinking of mupdf doing just cmyk or doing a full separation output (spots) also?15:26.33 
kens Robin_Watts : if paying Marti will help get the library fixed to the poitn we need, tehn it sounds like a good approach to me. We do need LCMS I think15:26.35 
ray_laptop cmyk doesn't require color management, does it ? 15:26.49 
Robin_Watts henrys: As tor7 said earlier, I think the idea is just to try rendering to cmyk and fix the problems we meet.15:26.54 
  I think either tor7 or I could handle that task.15:27.22 
  and I'm 'between tasks' at the moment.15:28.05 
henrys tor7:okay so if you can bump the priority of that a bit.15:28.06 
ray_laptop one area that's a bit complex is using the correct blending colorspace with transparency15:28.24 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: We currently treat all blending as rgb.15:28.44 
ray_laptop but mvrhel_laptop would know how much difference that makes15:28.54 
Robin_Watts I suspect that for the first version we would continue to do so.15:28.57 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: so does cust 532, and it passes their QA15:29.14 
mvrhel_laptop yes. I think we keep trans blending in rgb 15:29.29 
  for the first phase of this15:29.36 
henrys paulgardiner: so I'll officially assign the MS office research project to you.15:29.41 
ray_laptop but the overprint did come up with them, which mvrhel_laptop fixed with the SimulateOverprint 15:30.06 
paulgardiner henrys: sure. How does it compare in priority with the iOS work? Still have a fair bit to do on that.15:30.35 
henrys paulgardiner: I think first step is seeing what is available open source wise.15:30.36 
mvrhel_laptop so this is a current customer that wants cmyk from mupdf?15:31.03 
ray_laptop so if you are looking at a customer quality cmyk mupdf, I think overprint is important15:31.05 
henrys when you need a break from iOS do some of that.15:31.06 
Robin_Watts henrys: You'd pointed to apache POI as a possible starting point. It's got a nice license etc, but it's entirely java.15:31.29 
paulgardiner henrys: okay. Sounds good to me15:31.35 
Robin_Watts Are you thinking that we could accept a java based solution? Or that it'd need to be ported down to C or something?15:31.54 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: so we just drop in a java vm ?15:31.57 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: 'just'.15:32.13 
ray_laptop forgot the ;-)15:32.22 
henrys Robin_Watts: I'm thinking you're stuck with Java yes, but I could be wrong.15:32.30 
tor7 henrys: are there any more details on the MS office project?15:32.37 
paulgardiner henrys: re the iOS work, v8 looks problematic on iOS, but v7.1 gives access to the javascriptcore engine15:33.03 
henrys tor7:print and view xl, pp and office15:33.36 
  no writing15:33.44 
ray_laptop did we determine what version office files we are looking to supporrt -- just the modern XML style stuff ?15:33.55 
henrys s/office/word15:34.00 
paulgardiner Using that engine looks like a good option, but will require a new js-wiring-layer15:34.05 
henrys docx no legacy stuff15:34.07 
ray_laptop or the old stuff, too15:34.09 
Robin_Watts paulgardiner: For android, it could possibly call the JNI stuff I've been doing.15:34.28 
tor7 apache POI is written in java15:34.33 
ray_laptop henrys: I thought that was what was said at the staff meeting -- just double checking15:34.43 
Robin_Watts For non android platforms... god knows.15:34.54 
  actually, the JNI should be the same, right?15:35.05 
  ray_laptop, henrys: Apache POI does both docx and legacy.15:35.20 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: I would think so15:35.22 
Robin_Watts For excel sheets, it puts them both under a common interface.15:35.50 
henrys Robin_Watts: yes I know I was repeating the customer request15:35.53 
Robin_Watts For word docs, separate interfaces currently.15:36.08 
ray_laptop how's the "support" on the POI stuff ? Is there activity ?15:36.18 
paulgardiner Robin_Watts: so are you saying if the Android app were updated to use your new interface, then we could patch POI underneath it?15:36.24 
Robin_Watts We need to be a little careful with the POI stuff as the word support has no lead programmer anymore.15:36.37 
ray_laptop underneath or on top of ?15:36.42 
tor7 for word we'd really need to match the text layout (or at least line breaking) which is a bit more involved than just getting the text extracted15:36.46 
  not sure how far POI gets us there15:37.04 
henrys paulgardiner: sigh about the javascript engine.15:37.05 
Robin_Watts paulgardiner: I'm saying that we presumably want to write some java code that calls POI to read files, and call the fz_device layer to convert into mupdf format.15:37.37 
henrys tor7:yeah that was just something I looked at briefly15:37.48 
  I liked the license ;-)15:37.56 
paulgardiner henrys: possibly it's a good thing, other than the effort involved. It would be good to demonstrate that we can support more than one engine 15:38.08 
henrys paulgardiner: true.15:38.18 
Robin_Watts I thought that old versions of word contained the line breaking information internally at least.15:38.34 
  dunno about the new stuff.15:38.56 
henrys if we end up with office in java not sure about iOS … I thought there were noises about an oracle port but I don't know the state of that.15:39.01 
Robin_Watts So 'dumb' viewers were a lot easier.15:39.12 
tor7 Robin_Watts: I know that the pagination changes if you change printer in the page setup... if the printers have different DPI15:39.28 
paulgardiner I may not be understanding the main goal of the office work. If we rely on java then we've extended the android app, but not the library.15:39.38 
tor7 or line breaking as it were15:39.39 
henrys I think we might have an overly poisonous view of office because of history. It now is an open spec.15:40.02 
tor7 but if as you say the line breaking was in the file, then it'd make things a lot easier15:40.03 
Robin_Watts paulgardiner: The idea is so that we can sell "a solution" to customers.15:40.21 
  If we rely on a java based solution to read office docs, then we end up selling "a mixed java and native solution" to customers that need to have a JVM as well.15:41.02 
paulgardiner But presumably adding office support to the C library, in the same way as XPS, would be the preference?15:41.14 
Robin_Watts paulgardiner: That would be ideal.15:41.24 
  but Apache POI doesn't get us to that easily.15:41.33 
  If you can find an alternative solution that's C based, that would be even better.15:41.44 
tor7 I'd suggest not going down the path of adding even more features that the android app can do that none of our other platforms have anything to show for15:42.08 
paulgardiner If restricting to docx, I wonder how hard it is to do our own thing.15:42.11 
henrys Robin_Watts: I guess I don't understand something aren't we "selling" java code now?15:42.17 
tor7 even Robin's JNI bindings are android specific, and won't work with desktop Java IIRC15:42.30 
Robin_Watts henrys: Are we?15:42.34 
  tor7: I don't believe they are android specific.15:42.42 
  or at least, if they are, they needn't be.15:42.53 
tor7 the android.Bitmap and Rect classes you use in the bindings?15:42.57 
chrisl Why not look at the spec, first - it might be fairly easy to implement15:42.58 
ray_laptop we wouldn't consider java to C from the POI, would we ?15:43.04 
Robin_Watts tor7: Right, so those small bits need to be unpicked.15:43.15 
  The rect class is trivial.15:43.35 
  The bitmap class needn't be hard.15:43.41 
tor7 please, no java dependencies in the core library15:43.46 
paulgardiner chrisl: yeah, at least taking a look would make sense15:43.48 
Robin_Watts henrys: In what way are we selling java code now?15:44.05 
henrys I was hoping POI would end up being like a third party - where we could pull fixes from them but maybe that is not possiblele15:44.07 
tor7 Robin_Watts: yeah. I just made a mental note when I saw them that there were android specific bits to it.15:44.08 
henrys Robin_Watts: I though much of the form stuff was done in java15:44.22 
Robin_Watts henrys: java != javascript.15:44.35 
chrisl paulgardiner: it would be nice (but probably hopeless) to hope the office XML bares some relation to XPS......15:44.48 
Robin_Watts The two are completely unrelated, except for the name.15:44.50 
tor7 chrisl: I suspect the only thing in common is wrapping it up in a zip file :)15:45.10 
henrys I must be going crazy I thought I saw java changes from paulgardiner in commit messages.15:45.18 
paulgardiner henrys: the form stuff relies on javascript for full functionality, but works to some extent without it.15:45.26 
chrisl tor7: you are probably right15:45.27 
henrys I understand java is not javascript15:45.29 
Robin_Watts henrys: The android app is written in java.15:45.39 
  because all apps on android are at least superficially java.15:45.55 
paulgardiner henrys: in fact, AFAIKT, adobe reader on android supports forms without javascript15:45.57 
Robin_Watts but we try to keep the java side of things as small as possible, so the 'smarts' are all in the lib.15:46.42 
  In general the java side is 'just' UI (as far as possible)15:46.56 
tor7 IMO we've put too many smarts in the C side of the java bindings in the android app, which is why I've been pushing Robin to write the new JNI bindings.15:47.41 
paulgardiner yeah, the java is generally UI (and the bits that need translating to Objective C for iOS)15:47.47 
Robin_Watts Yeah, the current java bindings in IOS were done to be 'just enough' for what we needed for the app. Doing proper generic bindings would make it a lot nicer.15:49.02 
henrys Robin_Watts:okay but I'm sure a customer is fiddling with UI doing something in Java and selling the product the magazine vendors for example. They distribute a VM?15:49.17 
Robin_Watts henrys: On what platform?15:49.35 
henrys android15:49.48 
Robin_Watts On Android, ALL apps are written in java (at least superficially). Android comes with the Dalvik VM as it's core.15:50.00 
henrys We would not support a platform that doesn't have a vm15:50.16 
Robin_Watts So on Android, we could probably do a Apache POI based solution.15:50.21 
  On iOS... no chance.15:50.29 
henrys Robin_Watts: not sure about that Oracle is working on a port15:50.45 
kens : But will Apple approve it ?15:50.58 
Robin_Watts Oracle can port what they want, but it's Apples ball, and if they don't want to let Oracle play then Oracle can go and stand in the corner with Macromedia.15:51.30 
henrys and there is always java 2 objc translator ;-)15:51.39 
Robin_Watts s/Macromedia/Adobe/15:51.43 
ray_laptop on iOS, there is j2objc15:51.57 
henrys Robin_Watts: I think java might be too large for even apple to ignore but we'll see.15:52.25 
ray_laptop types to slowly15:52.26 
Robin_Watts The java thing is NOT a showstopper, cos we can probably work around it on pretty much any platform other than iOS, but, it *IS* a big shift in the way we work.15:52.44 
  henrys: people said that about flash.15:52.59 
  Apple REALLY don't want to let people run unapproved apps. And the moment a jvm gets onto the platform, that train has sailed.15:53.31 
paulgardiner On the other hand, if there is another opensource office implementation out there written in C then that has to be far better for us15:53.41 
Robin_Watts paulgardiner: Indeed.15:53.54 
henrys paulgardiner: open office is java I think the new libre stuff is C++15:54.22 
Robin_Watts Apache POI made reference to the fact that some of it is "XXXXXX converted to java".15:54.35 
  so maybe we could look at XXXXXXX.15:54.43 
tor7 Robin_Watts: not to mention the memory hogness of a java VM for each app15:55.03 
  on android, the JVM overhead is at least shared between apps15:55.16 
Robin_Watts libreoffice was (at the time of the split) just openoffice with the office import filters included by default.15:55.18 
paulgardiner XXXXXXX: A language I've always wanted to learn15:55.21 
tor7 abiword must have a doc importer15:55.36 
Robin_Watts where XXXXXXXX = some program in C who's name I forget.15:55.49 
henrys anyway we are coming up on the gs meeting. Are there other mupdf issues?15:55.50 
Robin_Watts henrys: Are you OK with me mailing marti about the possibility of him working on lcms for us?15:56.09 
chrisl tor7: abiword is GPL15:56.18 
henrys Robin_Watts: yes that is fine.15:56.21 
Robin_Watts henrys: thanks.15:56.28 
tor7 chrisl: right. but it's in C (or is it C++?)15:57.04 
Robin_Watts tor7: but it's GPL, so no use to us at all, right?15:57.23 
tor7 Robin_Watts: pretty much, yeah :(15:57.38 
henrys tor7:we could offer them money to go dual if the code were really good.15:58.41 
Robin_Watts henrys: The odds of that working halve with every contributor they've had...15:59.07 
tor7 henrys: too many contributors *may* be a problem, depends on if they've set up copyright assignments or not15:59.08 
henrys indeed15:59.18 
  sometime you have projects that are single handed enough to pull that off but probably not this.15:59.56 
  kens:how was your 1 week bug?16:00.31 
kens DOne!16:00.39 
  THanks to chrisl16:00.43 
tor7 abiword is all c++ so scratch that16:00.46 
ray_laptop abiword doesn't look very active. The last release was June 201016:00.53 
henrys chrisl:I assume you saw the urw status16:01.08 
chrisl henrys: I did - I'll keep quiet until someone pokes me about it16:01.29 
ray_laptop I can't believe that something as difficult as Office doc stuff wouldn't need more releases16:01.34 
chrisl ray_laptop: I suspect abiword's pre-xml importers are "good enough", and likely to stay that way16:02.39 
kens henrys I'm glad the bug is finished, |I was beginning to worry....16:02.48 
ray_laptop I want to see what anybody thinks about making the saved-pages a little more idiot proof.16:03.04 
  1. accepting -saved-pages (adding a special check for this). It's not likely someone will want to set a string named "aved-pages"16:03.06 
  2. If --saved-pages=begin or --saved-pages-test is placed before -sDEVICE= don't take immediate action, but wait until we do the init216:03.07 
  (Marcos tripped over this in setting up the weekly test of --saved-pages-test)16:03.09 
  does anybody have objections to either of those ?16:03.23 
henrys kens:yeah I hope we don't have many like that in the future.16:03.25 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: They both smell like special cases.16:03.29 
marcosw ray_laptop: speaking of --saved-pages-test, could you look at http://bugs.ghostscript.com/show_bug.cgi?id=694604 ?16:04.04 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: In general I dislike second guessing the users intentions.16:04.31 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: (2) is really not a special case, but just making --saved-pages-test and --saved-pages=begin more like most other command line options, in that they can go anywhere16:04.37 
henrys marcosw: was there any effort to find duplication in pcl and gs fuzzing - many tracebacks I see have to be common graphics library problems.16:05.20 
Robin_Watts In what way is that not a special case?16:05.20 
ray_laptop but I agree that (1) is a special case to accomodate people that can't read the docs correctly16:05.23 
Robin_Watts Currently, AIUI, our command line options are all processed in order.16:05.36 
  so why should --saved-pages-test be any different to that?16:06.15 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: right now, requiring that the --saved-pages-test or --saved-pages=begin follow the -sDEVICE=___ is a special case for these options16:06.28 
marcosw henrys: no, I didn't consolidate pcl and gs fuzzing issues. Just go ahead and fix all of the fuzzing bugs in either pcl or gs and I'll re-run the other one :-)16:06.43 
henrys marcosw: ;-)16:07.15 
ray_laptop right now, changing the order of most options on the command line still works the same way16:07.16 
henrys just looking over the bugs in the agenda16:08.07 
ray_laptop most device parameter options don't get processed in order -- they get collected and then sent to the device all at once. 16:08.55 
henrys kens:you can bounty 693363 to shelly if you want.16:08.55 
kens henrys I haven't had a chance to look at that one, I keep forgetting about it16:09.32 
  I tend to ignore XPS problems on the whole16:09.49 
henrys kens: hence my suggestion ;-)16:10.07 
kens henrys I think I wanted to look at it mself, IIRC its part of high level patterns, and the code construction made me think the scoping was deliberate.16:11.04 
  And it was me that wrote it...16:11.14 
henrys takanesan has purchased the jeitta files and he is mailing the cd to my house. I didn't know if I should try getting him to rip the cd and transferring .. this seemed easiest.16:12.12 
ray_laptop henrys: do you have all of the apps to let you create PCL's or PDF's ?16:13.03 
henrys ray_laptop:not all no16:13.28 
  I'll be happy to cover a couple apps to start16:14.21 
  chrisl: how's your main project going?16:15.20 
chrisl henrys: it's not, really. I've been looking at the PCL performance bug16:15.45 
marcosw henrys: I just went through the pcl fuzzing seg faults and there were 3 or 4 that appear to be the same as one of the gs ones. I've closed those as duplicates.16:15.50 
Robin_Watts henrys, paulgardiner: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/oox16:16.07 
chrisl henrys: but I've also had a really awful cold, which is slowing me down a bit :-(16:16.14 
Robin_Watts It seems the docx support in LibreOffice is indeed in C++ rather than java.16:16.25 
henrys chrisl: speaking of performance is there some nice way that we could gather stats on cache hits for a job - a debug option. I think that would be a good thing to have.16:17.20 
marcosw I may have missed some, but most of the pcl seg faults are in in source files in the pl or pxl directories, so can't be duplicates.16:17.22 
henrys marcosw: okay thanks I must have just chosen to look at a not so random sample.16:17.57 
chrisl henrys: I thought there was such an option....16:18.01 
henrys chrisl: the code is all there to tell you but it isn't very friendly.16:18.29 
Robin_Watts --debug=char-cache-detail ?16:18.43 
henrys -ZK tells you quite a bit - I imagine you could write a script to parse the output and get the cache hit rate but...16:19.19 
Robin_Watts henrys: So you want --debug=char-cache-summary or something ?16:19.51 
chrisl I can look into it - either a script to parse out the info, or something internal.16:20.19 
mvrhel_laptop chrisl; I feel for you. I came down with a bad cold yesterday16:20.20 
henrys chrisl, mvrhel_laptop I hope you guys get better soon.16:20.42 
mvrhel_laptop henrys: just so you know, I have been working hard to get this knockout stuff working16:20.59 
chrisl mvrhel_laptop: this cold just keeps coming back - this is the third iteration, and it just won't go away :-(16:21.09 
henrys chrisl: obviously not terribly important.16:21.10 
mvrhel_laptop in the process I have found a number of problems in the transparency code that will be fixed with this when I get it wrapped up, hopfully this week16:21.41 
chrisl henrys: well, it ties into my other *very* background "project" - I feel our glyph cache isn't optimal16:21.42 
mvrhel_laptop then I want to jump back to mupdf16:21.51 
henrys mvrhel_laptop: okay yes I noticed you got sucked back into gs16:22.13 
  chrisl: seems to me -ZK could output at the end of job the hit rate.16:22.52 
  Robin_Watts: one more thing - we are adamant not to use a global for the openjpeg allocator - if we can do that things are easy.16:23.55 
chrisl henrys: it could - I'm generally not keen on having to keep such data internally, though. It can complicate stuff16:24.04 
Robin_Watts henrys: right.16:24.53 
henrys chrisl: fair enough - "stats" are used with good frequency though in gs16:25.31 
Robin_Watts I've created a bug for the openjpeg allocator stuff and farmed it out to shelly. He was talking to the openjpeg people about it.16:25.47 
  haven't heard any progress reports.16:25.53 
henrys Robin_Watts: okay16:25.56 
  anything else for the meeting?16:26.25 
chrisl henrys: sure, I'd need to look into it to know either way - it may not introduce undue complications16:26.30 
henrys so we should adjourn, as usually I'll be around for a while.16:27.42 
  s/usually/usual16:27.52 
kens OK goodnight all16:28.11 
ray_laptop Since only Robin_Watts objected to my --saved-pages changes, I guess I can proceed, or do I have to bring Robin_Watts around as well ?16:28.19 
henrys I didn't like the special case but I won't fight fiercely about it.16:29.01 
ray_laptop but I am thinking of just doing (2), not (1) respecting Robin_Watts' comment about "special case"16:29.07 
kens I don't object, but I@m not sure its terribly important, RTFM16:29.14 
ray_laptop well, if marcosw tripped over (2) then probably others will as well.16:29.58 
marcosw ray_laptop: as I mentioned in bug 694604 there are other order dependent command line issues with --saved-pages-test (i.e. putting it before or after the -r300 command changes the output, both are wrong, but differently).16:30.01 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: I have to confess to not entirely understanding (2). Are you saying that --saved-pages-test etc fiddles with the current device? And that someone doing -sDEVICE=... then undoes that as it selects a different device or something ?16:30.36 
ray_laptop marcosw: right, and my changes will help that16:30.37 
marcosw great, wasn't sure if (2) only addressed the -sDEVICE= and --save-pages-test order dependency.16:31.19 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: --saved-pages-test (and --saved-pages) need to execute "init2" to install the device, and doing that BEFORE the -sDEVICE or other device parameters causes problems16:31.52 
Robin_Watts Does -sDEVICE actually take immediate effect?16:32.09 
  I thought that -sDEVICE just set a value in a dictionary.16:32.18 
  and that the device was only setup when the next file (or ps command) was about to be run ?16:32.43 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: no. All of the options are deferred until init2 (which is done prior to running a file, or a -c option)16:32.46 
Robin_Watts Right, so why can't --saved-pages-test just set a flag or something, and that can be done after the init2?16:33.09 
  Maybe that's what you're suggesting.16:33.18 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: so for (2) I was going to make --saved-pages-test act that way as well ... wait until we do init216:33.39 
  Robin_Watts: exactly.16:33.55 
Robin_Watts OK, so that sounds perfectly sane to me :)16:33.58 
ray_laptop cheers16:34.09 
marcosw wait, now that Robin_Watts thinks it's a good idea I'm going to change my mind and say that I prefer keeping it the way it currently is :-)16:34.51 
ray_laptop thanks, Robin_Watts (et al.) for the feedback16:34.51 
ray_laptop ignores marcosw (as usual) ;-)16:35.14 
marcosw I've already spent all this time refactoring the regression code to deal with the command line order dependency and that work is all going to have been a waste of energy...16:36.00 
ray_laptop marcosw: I'll have my son play you a sad song on the violin ;-)16:37.19 
mvrhel_laptop overprint simulation with transparency is a pain16:40.16 
  taking a break for a bit. need to go to airport to pick up my father16:43.37 
ray_laptop I've finished going through the bmpcmp for saved-pages-test mode with my fixes. there were lots of minor diffs, but a few actual bugs surfaced. I have to see if those are just due to clist mode, since most of the diffs were .0 (page mode) and saved-pages forces clist mode.16:44.15 
Robin_Watts anyone remember the name of a file with stroked text in it offhand?17:12.52 
  got one.17:48.41 
mvrhel_laptop still have a file with issue :(23:55.28 
  issues23:55.32 
  and of course it is some massive file...23:56.31 
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