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Log of #ghostscript at irc.freenode.net.

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Robin_Watts mvrhel_laptop: ping00:23.23 
mvrhel_laptop Robin_Watts: pong02:22.18 
Robin_Watts paulgardiner: or tor5: http://git.ghostscript.com/?p=user/robin/mupdf.git;a=commitdiff;h=6be1612dd916057317940962b39abd479ccfb56411:07.10 
paulgardiner Robin_Watts: LGTM11:08.54 
Robin_Watts ta.11:10.09 
Micha` paulgardiner: Did you receive my messages on highlights annots?11:12.07 
paulgardiner Micha`: Yes. That would explain some strange results I saw with a file that had strikethrough with no appearance stream. I assume the file was wrongly created.11:14.39 
tor5 Robin_Watts: paulgardiner: a handful of commits on tor/master for review11:15.13 
  paulgardiner: one of them should be of particular interest to you :)11:15.21 
  Robin_Watts: my hope is to extend the error-document so that the 'null' document wrapper can catch and display page errors using the same functions11:17.05 
paulgardiner Micha`: although, I would have thought sticking with counter-clockwise and starting with upper right instead of bottom left would give the same line but drawn in the oppsite direction.11:17.09 
tor5 then we would get error messages for free on all viewers11:17.26 
paulgardiner Micha`: I seem to remember the strange file I saw zigzagged the coords11:17.36 
tor5 fz_open_document could also wrap up an error in an error-document11:17.55 
  (also: I can't state enough how much love this chromebook pixel screen... now I want a 27" monitor with >200dpi)11:19.27 
paulgardiner tor5: yeah, .gitattributes change is fine11:21.35 
  tor5: removing the sort looks fine.11:22.43 
  tor5: font change looks fine11:26.43 
  tor5: text-advance stuff looks okay, although I don't know how it fits in with pdf_text_stride.11:38.36 
  tor5: consts look fine11:39.16 
tor5 paulgardiner: you might be able to reuse it (and not have to go digging through FT_Get_Advances yourself)11:39.17 
paulgardiner tor5: yeah, I was thinking just that11:39.32 
tor5 paulgardiner: there's an issue with pdfapp crashing if a pdf page fails to load (null dereferencing page->annots in event handling code)11:39.47 
  paulgardiner: I'll look into finding the places where we can reuse it after lunch11:39.58 
tor5 lunches.11:40.25 
Robin_Watts Vision has gone. will look when I can see again.11:42.18 
paulgardiner tor5: error document stuff looks fine too11:42.29 
  Robin_Watts: ah. Nasty. Hope it's a shortlived attack11:43.12 
Robin_Watts seems to be calming down.12:07.04 
  if (font->ft_substitute...12:07.18 
  I don't get the ft_substitute bit.12:07.33 
  oh, we only make a width table if fz_substitute? 12:08.54 
  In fz_advance_t3_glyph we assume that font->r3widths is non NULL12:10.00 
  but we aren't guaranteed that -we are guaranteed that font->t3procs12:10.31 
  tor5: So the idea behind the error document is that when we get an error thrown, we make a new document that contains just the error message as a textual thing?12:16.38 
  What if I have a 100 page document, and pages 1-99 work fine, but page 100 goes wrong? What do I see ?12:17.03 
paulgardiner tor5: some iOS 7 fixes on paul/master including a fix for the dancing page12:35.46 
tor5 Robin_Watts: t3widths is always set if t3procs exists12:36.33 
  Robin_Watts: yeah, that's the case I'm still considering how to solve (one page broken, others work)12:36.52 
  if load_page fails, we could set a flag, or make fz_page a real type that contains a flag12:37.37 
  if run_page fails, maybe we should just ignore that case12:37.51 
  fucking fantastic. anyone know how to sign out of a google account for real reals?12:42.15 
  they've made it bloody impossible...12:42.22 
  (pardon my french, but google's shenanigans really annoy me)12:42.52 
chrisl tor5: no need apologise for the language - you can be confident that google's "safe search" will hide it from sensitive souls!12:45.14 
  tor5: doesn't the drop down menu from your user name give you the option to sign out?12:46.14 
tor5 chrisl: yeah, but then you try to sign in with another account and you have to "add account" to your existing not-quite-logged-out account and god knows what that will do12:46.45 
  if I log out I want to be logged out for good, not in some stupid semi-logged-out-but-we-still-know-who-you-are state12:47.16 
chrisl Isn't that a cookies thing?12:47.33 
charley__ hi there! just a quick question... can I use ghostscript to convert PDF to multi-page TIFF in Mac OS ?12:47.56 
tor5 chrisl: I still need to log into gmail for some things, or I'd just permaban all cookies from *google.com12:48.06 
chrisl charley__: it should work, yes12:49.11 
charley__ thanks chris12:49.36 
chrisl something like "gs -sDEVICE=tiff24nc -o output.tiff input.pdf"12:49.58 
charley__ cool... will give it a try12:50.13 
chrisl tor5: yeh, google's monomania is getting out of hand :-(12:50.39 
sebras does anyone know about any opensource licensed chinese ming (serif) outline font?13:25.02 
tor5 sebras: I've looked through the arphic uming ttf13:30.46 
chrisl I'm not sure how "open" the "Arphic Public License" is13:31.22 
tor5 it's 20MB but I suspect that can be pruned quite heavily, since it's a TTC with CN, HK, TW, TW MBE variants and a lot of bitmaps13:31.34 
  and you only care about the CN variant from what you told me13:31.46 
  chrisl: it's free enough for debian :)13:32.59 
chrisl Ah, I'm looking at Ubuntu, so.....13:33.28 
tor5 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#Arphic13:33.46 
chrisl There does seem to be a CN only variant under the file name bsmi00lp.ttf13:34.01 
  tor5: I lack the patience and the will to read about license compatibilities!13:34.56 
sebras tor5: I think the arphic license prevents you from making _any_ changes to the font file though.13:44.20 
tor5 sebras: you can change as much as you want, but you must rename13:44.47 
sebras also I found that arphic released some more fonts in 2010: http://www.arphic.com/tw/news/2010/20100420.html13:44.52 
  tor5: oh, I didn't catch that from skimming the license.13:45.08 
tor5 sebras: anyway, fonts-arphic-gbsn00lp in debian has the font you probably want. 5M in size.13:45.19 
sebras tor5: do you think that one is better or worse than the baosong and mingu I just linked to?13:46.50 
  tor5: crap, baosong and mingu are only for non-commerical use. :-P13:48.15 
tor5 sebras: not the same license?13:48.42 
sebras tor5: it _says_ arphic public license, but maybe the terms have changed.13:48.57 
  tor5: apl doesn't seem to be versioned.13:49.19 
tor5 sebras: I can't unpack the rar files13:50.12 
sebras tor5: oh? 7z has no problems here...13:50.40 
tor5 "Unsupported method"13:50.47 
sebras tor5: are you using unrar?13:50.56 
tor5 maybe because you have non-free?13:51.02 
sebras tor5: no. 7z licensed the unrar 3.0 code from the rar dev.13:51.21 
  tor5: but the code can only be legally used in 7z.13:51.33 
  tor5: I have the p7zip-full package installed.13:51.43 
  and p7zip-rar13:51.52 
tor5 sebras: then I guess my p7zip-full package is too old.13:51.53 
sebras tor5: I think you are missing the latter package.13:52.09 
tor5 ah, yes. the p7zip-rar appeared when I added non-free to the apt sources13:52.31 
sebras tor5: mmm.13:52.53 
  tor5: how did you install the nvidia driver without non-free?! oh well...13:53.23 
tor5 sebras: on my laptop.13:53.45 
  sebras: oh the sneaky bastards. yes, the new public_license.rar has "non-profit" wording where the original doesn't13:54.04 
sebras a drawback is that the 5Mbyte font bousung font "only" has 7k glyphs. who knows if this is enough or not.13:54.20 
  tor5: indeed.13:54.24 
  tor5: the new baosong font covers more characters.13:54.38 
tor5 sebras: I suggest you try it first. the new baosong is a no go unless you're willing to contact arphic for a commercial license.13:55.09 
sebras tor5: mmm, the bsmi00lp here though: http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/non-gnu/chinese-fonts-truetype/13:56.45 
  chrisl: yes, chrisl, I _do_ read what you are writing. I'm just slow to process it.13:57.07 
tor5 sebras: bs*13:58.26 
chrisl sebras: I wouldn't bother - it's rarely worth reading..... ;-)13:58.39 
tor5 sebras: b* fonts are Big5, g* fonts are GB13:58.43 
sebras tor5: aha. ok, so that's why it adds another 7k characters.13:59.02 
  tor5: agh, why haven't the unicode people sorted the chinese characters in simplified and traditional. :-/14:18.47 
tor5 sebras: hello han unification :)14:21.57 
  Robin_Watts: ugh, I want doc->ctx also in the fz_document superclass, and some way to separate pages from the specific fz_document... maybe have the bound_page/run_page functions in the fz_page object14:27.00 
  struct fz_page { fz_document *owner; void (*run_page)(); void (*bound_page)(); void (*free_page)(); }14:28.01 
  I'll think on this some more, so don't push the error_document stuff yet14:28.44 
Micha` paulgardiner: With strikethrough you say? I didn't look at that case, I'll have a look.14:30.26 
  paulgardiner: Yup, I can see that TINWAD (This Is Not What Adobe Does). I have some useful test PDFs here, so I'll give it a shot.14:39.02 
kens Hmm spotting duplicate shadings has reduced my test file size by 41%, that's nice.14:57.13 
paulgardiner Micha`: I just tried creating a strikethrough annotation on the android version of Adobe Reader. The quadpoints seem to be ordered tl, tr, bl, br. A zigzag, rather than rotational order.15:14.59 
Robin_Watts tor5: I want doc->ctx too.15:29.16 
  I need that for java bindings I think.15:29.31 
tor5 binding a fz_page to a ctx and doc (and dropping the doc argument to fz_xxx_page calls) sounds reasonable to me as well15:30.13 
  and it should make it easier to do multiplexing input types (like the "all pdfs in a directory as one document" we keep getting asked about)15:30.51 
Robin_Watts tor5: Indeed. I don't think I'm averse to that either.15:31.22 
tor5 Robin_Watts: I'll have a stab at fixingt doc->ctx tomorrow, and see if I can clean up the fz_document constructors a bit.15:31.39 
marcosw1 mornig15:31.50 
Robin_Watts Meeting delayed by 45 minutes, right?15:31.57 
  morning marcosw115:32.00 
  How is psdcmykog behaving now ?15:32.08 
marcosw1 seems to be okay. there is an issue with very large output files, i.e. ones that are more than 50 pages.15:33.05 
Robin_Watts marcosw1: How so? 2 gig limit ?15:34.27 
marcosw1 yes, I think that's it. give me sec and I'lll give you a command line that fails.15:35.08 
mvrhel_laptop Robin_Watts: I did not think we were still having a meeting15:36.52 
marcosw1 bin/gs -o test.psd -dMaxBitmap=10000 -sDEVICE=psdcmykog -r600 ./tests/pdf/Bug6901014_SMP_Warwick_14.pdf15:37.07 
kens meeting optional15:37.30 
Robin_Watts mvrhel_laptop: optional meeting :)15:37.32 
mvrhel_laptop ok. Robin_Watts I may have some mupdf winrt things for you to review today. I have been beating on the surface and found a couple issues15:38.14 
Robin_Watts mvrhel_laptop: re meeting up on oahu - helen points out that we still be massively jetlagged on sunday night. Probably best to play it by ear. Will you have your mobile with you?15:38.33 
mvrhel_laptop Robin_Watts: yes. so we can def. play it by ear15:38.46 
marcosw1 Robin_Watts: thinking about it the problem may not be with the psdcmykog device, it might be with my tools that read psdcmyk files. i'll look into it.15:40.48 
  yeah, that's it. so, never mind.15:42.21 
Robin_Watts marcosw1: Ah, phew.15:43.58 
  marcosw1: Am I right in thinking that bugs have been opened for all the fuzzing/valgrind issues that we had reported to us in that big bunch ?15:45.01 
  I mean "crashes/valgrind issues caused by fuzzing"15:45.40 
marcosw1 Robin_Watts: yes.15:49.15 
Robin_Watts marcosw1: Brilliant, so the claims I made last night in my email were true :)15:50.04 
marcosw1 if we wanted to double check to make sure they are all fixed I could run the files again.15:51.05 
chrisl marcosw1: did that paint pen I ordered arrive?15:53.05 
Robin_Watts chrisl: http://www.dansdata.com/gz143.htm15:53.19 
marcosw1 chrisl: a box came from you several weeks ago, I presume that's it. sorry that i forget to mention it.15:53.47 
chrisl marcosw1: no worries - it's for my Dad, and he's been asking every time I see him!15:54.16 
  Robin_Watts: interesting - there was an interview with Neil Young doing the rounds a while back where he berated the hi-def audio formats as being useless and pointless15:54.53 
henrys sorry about messing up the meeting, I'm back now15:56.50 
chrisl Robin_Watts: that's an interesting article, with some truth in it - but also, I feel, some bias. There are plenty of documented "blind tests" out there that got a different result to the one he referenced in CD vs hi-res audio.....15:59.10 
henrys chrisl: ugh the ufst stuff - what an ordeal15:59.53 
chrisl henrys: one bit of information that neither Adrian nor I spotted as being important, and turned out to be the key - ho-hum.....16:00.47 
Micha` paulgardiner: How weird! Highlights are not properly zigzaged (properly in the sense of Adobe, not the standard though...) The quadpoints are computed by the app, though, not by the library.16:01.05 
chrisl henrys: anyway, I just pushed the fixes, so hopefully that's all okay. Custom FCOs - <sigh> really?16:02.12 
paulgardiner Micha`: yes quite. I was agreeing that MuPDF has it wrong, just not on in what way it is wrong.16:03.23 
henrys chrisl: yes just reading the changes16:03.42 
paulgardiner Both the library and apps need changing, because the library assume rotational order when generating the appearance stream16:04.05 
henrys chrisl: custom fco's sounds like a question for Dr. Doolittle16:05.06 
chrisl henrys: I was hoping to avoid getting involved - beyond telling them what to change.....16:05.43 
ray_laptop henrys: worked out great for me that you were late. I also had a minor car issue that kept me late today :-)16:05.44 
Micha` Right. I've done some work on the library, I'll submit an enhancement request on the bugtracker when I'm done. Right now, I'm trying to figure out how Adobe computes the thickness of the strikethrough...16:06.02 
paulgardiner Micha`: must be similar to MuPDF's I'd have thought, maybe with different constants.16:07.23 
henrys ray_laptop: hah16:07.55 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: I'll take care of responding to cust 801 re the 'stat' job processing with a single gs process16:08.42 
henrys Robin_Watts: is the alignment thing all taken care of?16:09.05 
Robin_Watts henrys: I believe so.16:09.17 
ray_laptop hopes so16:09.17 
Robin_Watts The psdcmykog device uses the alignment thing and that's working.16:09.31 
henrys no I meant your mem_mono_copy_mono fix, there was a warning the #define you used was not seen by the compiler and we agreed to a cluster push with an assert.16:10.35 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: You mean the "-dFirstPage" stuff?16:10.56 
  Ah, stat as in "immediate" ?16:11.01 
  henrys: oh, right, urm. I ran a test last night with the assert in.16:11.21 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: yes, I'm still going through the emails, so if they sent another, I haven't seen it yet16:11.25 
Robin_Watts Let me check that.16:11.25 
Micha` paulgardiner: Well, there are quite a few differences, for instance when the stroke is not horizontal. A good indication that something may be missing is that qp[i+3] is never considered; but I'll have all that covered in my proposal, hopefully.16:11.43 
Robin_Watts henrys: yeah, my tests passed fine.16:11.48 
paulgardiner Micha`: it should work fine at any angle.16:12.52 
Robin_Watts henrys: The "big potential mupdf customer" got in touch again last night, asking about the fuzzing files.16:13.07 
  We currently have 3 crashes left in the fuzzing files with MuPDF, one in jbig2, 2 in openjpeg.16:13.31 
  Simon has looked at them and can't reproduce them on windows.16:13.51 
  Can I prod shelly to look at them instead?16:13.59 
  They are marked as bountiable.16:14.12 
henrys Robin_Watts: has marcosw reproduced them in current code?16:14.22 
paulgardiner Micha`: provided the quads define rectangles, it shouldn't matter what angle they are at. qp[i+3] is derivable from the others for a rectangle.16:14.23 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: is that openjpeg or openjpeg2 ?16:14.23 
Robin_Watts henrys: I reproduced them all in current code last night.16:14.35 
chrisl Robin_Watts: Shelly might be busy at the moment - I'm having dinner with him tonight, so I can ask......16:14.36 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: Yes.16:14.40 
  chrisl: ah, perfect.16:14.44 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: good answer ;-)16:15.07 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: openjpeg 2 I believe.16:15.14 
Micha` paulgardiner: Right, I'm considering non parallelograms.16:15.22 
paulgardiner Micha`: trapeziums maybe not, but rectangles should be fine.16:15.23 
henrys chrisl: great, which bugs I'll bump the priority16:15.24 
  ?16:15.26 
  Robin_Watts: ^^^16:15.30 
Robin_Watts 69362/3/416:15.51 
  694362/3/416:15.58 
  mvrhel_laptop: Do you need tea?16:29.46 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: I was a bit surprised by cust 801's statement "Because in our next product, RAM capacity will be very small." Much of the performance with BGPrint and NumRenderingThreads will be lost if they don't have a fair amount of RAM to support the extra threads (and their buffers)16:36.46 
  Robin_Watts: I was thinking more about their use, and if they use gp_check_interrupts to pause processing, this is polled (from the graphics lib) during page printing. I'm thinking that a switch *only* when parsing PS would be better. That way we know we are not printing (well, unless BGPrint is on, then we may be)16:40.23 
mvrhel_laptop Robin_Watts: I think we are fine tea wise thank you16:40.37 
ray_laptop I'll work on it some more, and let Robin_Watts and mvrhel_laptop chat. mention me and I *might* pay attention16:41.32 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: Yes, "very small" memory is worrying.16:41.50 
  but NRT can work with reasonably small memory if there is a backing store.16:42.12 
  bg print with a backing store should be OK too, right?16:42.38 
  ray_laptop: There is code in the ps interpreter that drops out of the interpretation loop every 'n' instructions already.16:45.24 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: the BGPrint instance as well as each thread each have their own band buffer, which may be fairly large if 5 planes and BandHeight=128, 600 dpi (roughly 4Mb). It depends on what they consider "small"16:45.29 
Robin_Watts possibly for context switching? or for periodic gcs?16:45.58 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: you mean 'ticks_left", set from i_ctx_p->time_slice_ticks, right ?16:47.13 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: I've got my head in Mupdf at the moment, but that sounds right, yes.16:47.30 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: that is 'overloaded' to provide the GC signal16:48.04 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: Right. Can we similarly do the periodic check they need on that too ?16:48.38 
  The first and most urgent question to me is, does -dFirstPage work with postscript ?16:49.12 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: I'll leave you to think mupdf. I'll have a go at adding some support for interrupting a job in a way that we can continue, as well as sketching out an example that uses multiple instances, each in a thread.16:50.05 
kens Robin_Watts : I believe the answer there is 'no'16:51.02 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: FristPage doesn't work with PS (or PCL). With PS, it can be hacked in fairly easily by using an EndPage proc with setpagedevice. 16:51.03 
kens what ray said16:51.12 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: I think we should push them to know what "a very small amount of memory" means.16:51.25 
chrisl I think it does "work" with PCL.....16:51.27 
ray_laptop chrisl: really ???16:51.41 
henrys chrisl: yes it does16:51.42 
chrisl It just discards pages until it reaches the specified "first"16:51.59 
ray_laptop henrys: LastPage as well ?16:51.59 
  henrys: does it make all the calls (i.e. write the clist), then just skip the 'showpage' ?16:52.32 
henrys ray_laptop: yes16:52.34 
  ray_laptop:I don't remember how I did it. I'll look16:53.07 
chrisl ray_laptop: if you feed PS into GS in buffers, you can "suspend" the job between buffers16:53.13 
kens yes, but you can't start another job at the same time16:54.20 
ray_laptop chrisl: right, as long as you can have more than one 'instance'. I haven't looked at how thread safe PCL is, and how one might spawn another instance since that is all baked into plmain16:54.21 
  that's why we encourage people to have processes for each instance, and not threads :-)16:55.01 
chrisl ray_laptop: I meant "suspend" as in end the current job, and start new one.... then do some shennanigans to get the first job back to where you need it later16:55.51 
ray_laptop but the problem comes in when they each try to talk to the same device (i.e. make calls that interact with the h/w)16:56.15 
chrisl ray_laptop: using a single instance, we need to actually "end" the lower priority job, we can't just "stop" because the interpreter will be in an unknown state16:57.07 
ray_laptop chrisl: what the customer wrote implied that they could suspend after a page was finished printing. Then FirstPage would let them just restart the suspended job (assuming they have it spooled somewhere)16:57.22 
henrys ray_laptop: right just skips gs_output_page()16:57.43 
ray_laptop chrisl: right. That's rather a brute force approach, but can work16:57.56 
henrys ray_laptop: so performance sucks16:57.59 
ray_laptop henrys: OK. well, doing that as well for PS isn't hard, and PDF already handles it16:58.20 
chrisl Presumably it's fairly quick when using a clist?16:58.54 
ray_laptop henrys: presumably, this is not something that is done frequently. So they just document "restarting the interrupted job may take a while"16:59.05 
henrys ray_laptop:at one time we used it for a viewer and we set the resolution very low (10) for pages outside the range. But that was a mess16:59.07 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: I read the customers mail as being "we'll abandon a job, then rerun it from the start"16:59.10 
ray_laptop henrys: I'll bet16:59.21 
  Robin_Watts: I read it a re-run it from the start, but they didn't want to re-print the pages that had already been done. Thus the desire for -dFirstPage=#17:00.10 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: Right.17:00.19 
ray_laptop henrys: what might be easier is switching in a dummy device that just throws things away (a'la bbox) to speed up parsing and not write the clst. Then when we hit FirstPage, switch to the real device.17:02.48 
chrisl Could we use nullpage for that?17:03.15 
henrys ray_laptop:I tried that a long time ago with the null device and ran afoul of a the memory manager and gave up, but it might be worth trying again.17:03.45 
ray_laptop the bbox device can be set to the same resolution as the target, so the PCL 'automatic end of page' calculation would work correctly17:04.17 
henrys ray_laptop:bbox was adding 10 or so percent on many jobs I'm not comfortable with that.17:05.16 
ray_laptop I'll have a look at trying bbox first, since we know it works OK.17:05.19 
  It'll probably have to forward get/put params to the target since those allow for 'persistent' changes in the device (across pages). 17:06.40 
Robin_Watts If you can make bbox work, we can implement a "skip" device17:07.13 
ray_laptop But first, I'll sketch out the changes to suspend the job after a page is done.17:07.16 
chrisl ray_laptop: another question is: how many times are they going to support this happening? They're examples have all been two jobs, but might they want to allow a "stack" of suspended jobs?17:07.25 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: right. That would take care of forwarding what the target device needs. Similar to bbox, but trimmed down.17:08.12 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: Actually, we might be able to do what my "spy" device does.17:09.18 
ray_laptop chrisl: my impression was that this would occur only for one job. And we were going to try and keep the restarting of a job up to them. In theory they could stack them17:09.25 
chrisl ray_laptop: "Leave it up to them" - I like the sound of that! ;-)17:10.18 
Robin_Watts My spy device uses a "clever engineering mechanism" (i.e. a horrid hack) to allow it to intercept all a given devices entry points.17:10.31 
  and it can then detach later.17:10.45 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: where's the spy device ?17:11.26 
Robin_Watts We could do the same here, and thus just 'attach'/'detatch' the "skipper" to turn any device into a skip device.17:11.37 
  ray_laptop: Let me find it.17:11.46 
ray_laptop I grepped doc/* for 'spy' and couldn't find it (also devs.mak)17:12.01 
Robin_Watts http://git.ghostscript.com/?p=user/robin/ghostpdl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b40d4cb62a8729edda984b63383ae339fee6a54217:12.15 
  ray_laptop: It's in my local repo. It's not finished, but the attach/detatch works.17:12.39 
mvrhel_laptop neat17:12.39 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: no wonder I couldn't see it :-/17:13.14 
Robin_Watts It's a debugging device; the idea is that if you stop a gs run in a debugger, you can apply the spy to a currently running device and it lists all the calls that happen until you detach it.17:15.12 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: Not sure how that would work with prn devices that re-write procs with clist_procs17:15.52 
  Robin_Watts: also, it wouldn't help with one big 'gotcha' -- pdf14 compositing. Seems that we'd go ahead and push a pdf14 device and render the whole thing17:16.48 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: rewriting of procs is a problem, yes.17:17.17 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: unless it swallowed all of the compositor calls in 'skip' mode17:17.33 
Robin_Watts but presumably we could hook the code that does the rewriting and tell it not to bother, as we aren't going to be using the clist results anyway.17:18.05 
  and, as you say, we wouldn't forward the compositor calls, so we'd be OK on that count.17:18.23 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: worse hacks have been done in the clist code :-)17:18.26 
mvrhel_laptop where there's a hack there's a way17:19.08 
Robin_Watts presumably we'd only want to be doing this skipping for printer devices?17:19.22 
  skipping ain't gonna work for stuff like pdfwrite.17:19.35 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: right, but that isn't a problem for this class of devices17:19.57 
  the gxdso_supports_saved_pages identifies printer class devices17:20.51 
Robin_Watts so having the skipping know about the vicissitudes of printer devices is not a problem, as it will only be working on those devices.17:20.54 
  gah. valgrind + cryptgraphic hashing + debugging on linux + vestiges of migraine.17:22.21 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: I had a bit too much coffee the other morning and my vision was funky -- flashing rectangles of light on the right side. I think it was an optical migraine.17:27.28 
  first time I've ever had that.17:27.50 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: sounds familiar. only they aren't rectangles for me.17:28.48 
  I get a spiralling kaleidoscope effect, then a disconnect between my eyes, and I cease to be able to resolve whole areas of vision.17:29.33 
ray_laptop Robin_Watts: I'll review the bbox device and put together a 'skip' device that we can attach / detach like the spy device. The bbox device takes care of text_begin (we can't just skip that)17:29.35 
  Robin_Watts: sounds worse. From reading, and people I know that get migraines, caffeine makes ti worse.17:30.15 
Robin_Watts I haven't touched caffeine all day.17:30.32 
  I think mine are triggered by light.17:30.48 
Robin_Watts resolves to spend more time safely locked in a dark office.17:31.07 
henrys chrisl: have you looked at the cyrillic characters, are the helvetica and roman ones very similar. A trick the ufst does is use the same glyphs for many many character in different fonts.17:54.07 
chrisl henrys: I haven't - I'm really hoping the thing with Adrian is done, and I can get to it tomorrow.17:55.14 
henrys chrisl: indeed let's hope17:55.49 
chrisl henrys: that's not now the MT fonts work - IIRC, they use a library of mathematical "features" and assemble glyph outlines from those - hence many glyphs look very similar17:56.07 
mvrhel_laptop Robin_Watts: ping17:57.24 
Robin_Watts pong17:57.30 
chrisl henrys: actually, I should look at the UFST update tomorrow <sigh>17:57.36 
  s/UFST/URW17:57.44 
henrys chrisl: right but I thought they also had aliases for some stuff17:57.48 
mvrhel_laptop Robin_Watts: So miles wanted me to send him the information about the group that is ripping off mupdf in windows phone.17:57.53 
  they are selling one version17:58.09 
  http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/pdf-reader-pro/6893a0c6-abb3-47b0-b2c1-5b65a9d763f517:58.11 
henrys chrisl: it would be good to quantify the size difference exactly.17:58.13 
Robin_Watts can't remember anything about that.17:58.14 
mvrhel_laptop Do you still have the contact information about them17:58.20 
  you pinged them about not complying with GPL at one point17:58.31 
  they claimed they were17:58.37 
Robin_Watts Let me see.17:58.44 
chrisl henrys: they do all sorts of things to save space....17:58.47 
  henrys: "quantify the size difference exactly" - difference between what?17:59.14 
henrys chris:us and them for say a printer configuration like you spec'd out for yuki18:00.16 
chrisl henrys: Oh, okay, I thought you were doing a fontmap for that - I can do it, though18:00.55 
henrys chrisl: oh was I supposed to do something?18:01.34 
Robin_Watts mvrhel_laptop: I can't find anything, but I wouldn't have deleted it. Do you have any name for them other than "Ocius" ?18:01.49 
mvrhel_laptop hold on18:02.00 
  pdf.reader.support@hotmail.com18:02.38 
  was their email18:02.42 
chrisl henrys: You said you had the information to create a fontmap file (or already had before), so leave it to you.... Like I say, I can do it: *most* of the information is in the PCL interp code18:02.45 
mvrhel_laptop Robin_Watts: also https://www.facebook.com/PDFReaderForWP18:04.13 
henrys chrisl: leaving it to you. I believe ya' but the synapse must have been disrupted.18:04.21 
chrisl henrys: no problem - too much other sh*t going on......18:04.56 
Robin_Watts mvrhel_laptop: Ah. I contacted them via facebook.18:05.40 
mvrhel_laptop ok18:05.46 
  Thanks Robin_Watts 18:06.29 
Robin_Watts Right, they pointed me at the source for pdfreader on bitbucket.org18:08.04 
  but their source does not compile because they have deleted all 'security sensitive information'.18:08.24 
mvrhel_laptop hmm18:08.33 
Robin_Watts Which makes it not GPL compliant.18:08.35 
mvrhel_laptop Robin_Watts: do you have the link still?18:08.59 
Robin_Watts And they invite commercial licenses at pdf.reader.support@hotmail.com18:09.07 
  I have access to it on bitbucket, yes.18:09.17 
  but you have to be 'invited' to have access to it.18:09.26 
mvrhel_laptop oh18:09.30 
  that is not right18:09.34 
Robin_Watts In theory that's fine with the GPL.18:09.49 
  You only have to give access to the source to those people who request it.18:10.03 
mvrhel_laptop oh ok. I would like to get invited18:10.07 
Robin_Watts Let me see if I can do that.18:10.15 
mvrhel_laptop Being GPL, it should be infectious 18:10.48 
Robin_Watts mvrhel_laptop: GPL is infectious, yes, and they are not abiding by it in my book.18:11.10 
  but only giving source access on request is perfectly fine, AIUI.18:11.20 
mvrhel_laptop ok18:11.25 
Robin_Watts as long as they never refuse the request :)18:11.29 
  I can invite you if you tell me what email address to use.18:11.43 
  Do you have a bitbucket account ?18:11.49 
mvrhel_laptop no18:11.52 
  let me get one18:11.55 
Robin_Watts mvrhel_laptop: Let me send you a referral link. What email address would you like ?18:12.13 
mvrhel_laptop use alpha(at)mvrhel.com to reduce spam on my artifex account18:12.40 
  Robin_Watts: ^^18:12.48 
Robin_Watts invitation sent.18:13.00 
  Let me send a mail to you/miles with details in.18:13.19 
mvrhel_laptop ok sounds good18:13.27 
  Robin_Watts: ok so I now have a bit bucket account. I guess I need to get them to give me access?18:16.13 
  Them, being the people ripping off mupdf18:16.25 
  ok. just sent them a request for source access18:17.26 
  need to head to school. bbiab18:17.37 
ray_laptop Note, that for GPL, an outfit has to give everything needed to rebuild and replace the GPL code with something else equivalent (presumably a version with bugs fixed). It's not enough to just give out the source to the GPL component. And we (Artifex) claim that if it forms a seamless application then their app is 'infected'. Others say that "we invoke a process" and get off that way, but...18:31.00 
  ...that's almost impossible with mupdf and make a viewer18:31.01 
Robin_Watts ray_laptop: I concur. There is no way these clowns are complying.18:31.28 
ray_laptop about all they *could* do is convert pages to image in a process and display the bitmaps, or convert to HTML and display the text (reflow).18:32.26 
  I just got an email from linkedin that one of the guys that used to work for me is now at a "System software consultant at Microsoft" whatever that is18:33.35 
  I was going to ping him and ask what he's working on.18:34.09 
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