| | <<<Back 1 day (to 2014/02/06) | 2014/02/07 |
| sa_ | ghost | 08:40.25 |
| | t | 08:40.27 |
| | \\192.168.7.17 | 08:40.46 |
| | g | 08:40.48 |
| | ggar | 08:40.50 |
| | exit | 08:40.53 |
| | tor8 | 08:40.59 |
| kens | janmoesen : here is a PostScript program to do 2-up imposition of PDF files | 10:43.53 |
| | http://pastebin.com/TQjF6R4n | 10:43.55 |
| janmoesen | yeah, i would definitely not have gotten that far --- thanks, kens! | 11:36.12 |
| kens | Ï make no guarantees, but it worked on my 31 page test file | 11:36.32 |
| | It uses the 'current' page size to impos onto, so if you want a landscape 2x2 you need to set up the page size as well eg -g842x595 for landscape A4 | 11:37.06 |
| jad_jay | Hi everyone | 11:38.22 |
| | I don't know where to find such issue, but I want to do that http://pastebin.com/g0aDxbg1 with a presentation PDF, is it possible with ghostscript ? | 11:43.53 |
| kens | Ghostscript doesn't handle text as an input, only PostScript or PDF | 11:44.36 |
| | You could do something similar, suing tghe code I posted above for janmoesen to do 2-up imposition of PDF files | 11:45.53 |
| jad_jay | kens It's pdf file | 11:46.18 |
| | kens: I'm here from 10 min I can't see your code | 11:46.50 |
| janmoesen | 11:43 < kens> janmoesen : here is a PostScript program to do 2-up imposition of PDF files | 11:47.12 |
| kens | It was just before you joined, I suggest the channel logs | 11:47.14 |
| janmoesen | jad_jay: ^ | 11:47.17 |
| | oops, sorry | 11:47.22 |
| jad_jay | Hum okay how to avoid one on two ? | 11:48.29 |
| | Erf no! | 11:48.42 |
| | I mean how to have only the first on top | 11:48.56 |
| kens | You will have to modify the PostScript program, it doesn't do precisly what you want but its a step towards it | 11:48.58 |
| jad_jay | kens: okay | 11:49.10 |
| | kens: I'm really sorry but i'm pretty new to gs code, I name your file 2-up.gs and use it like usage say ? | 11:52.59 |
| kens | jad_jay : Its PostScript, not gs code. You can use it as the comment says, it draws 2 PDF pages side by side. | 11:53.41 |
| | The comments explain more or less what its doing | 11:53.52 |
| jad_jay | yes okay but How do I name the file ? | 11:54.10 |
| kens | Your case is simpler, but you need a similar approach | 11:54.10 |
| | It doesn't matter | 11:54.19 |
| | call it fred if you like | 11:54.25 |
| jad_jay | Okay let say i call it fred could you show me the command line then ? | 11:54.49 |
| kens | replace 2-up.ps with fred | 11:55.10 |
| jad_jay | Okay so I have get this right | 11:55.27 |
| kens | otherwise as per the comment | 11:55.29 |
| jad_jay | this command line : gs -dNODISPLAY -sFile=AXEL.pdf fred | 11:56.13 |
| | destroy the original AXEL.pdf | 11:56.24 |
| kens | No | 11:56.28 |
| jad_jay | this command line : gs -dNODISPLAY -sFile=AXEL.pdf fred > Axel2-UP.pdf | 11:56.43 |
| | work | 11:56.49 |
| kens | won't do anything | 11:56.52 |
| | dsYou need to specify a device and output file | 11:57.11 |
| jad_jay | ok how | 11:57.24 |
| kens | -sDEVICE=pdfwrite -sOutputFile=out.pdf | 11:57.56 |
| | This much is described in the documentation, I suggest you read it | 11:58.13 |
| jad_jay | Okay now we getting somewhere thanks a lot | 11:58.16 |
| fontissue | hello | 12:12.40 |
| ghostbot | bonjour | 12:12.40 |
| fontissue | bonjour | 12:12.45 |
| jad_jay | bonjour | 12:12.52 |
| fontissue | j'ai téléchargé Ghostscript (gs910w64.exe) pour Windows 7 64 bits et l'ai installé. J'ai téléchargé le pack de polices Ghostscript standard fonts (http://sourceforge.net/projects/gs-fonts/) mais je n'arrive pas à installer les polices qu'il contient | 12:13.58 |
| | Windows me dit que les polices ne sont pas valides | 12:14.24 |
| jad_jay | kens: there is a mistake in your script line 215 | 12:15.10 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl, kens: I'm sure I'm just being blind, but I can't see where the linespacing is set is fontforge. | 12:16.10 |
| | (I don't even know what the right term for linespacing is - vertical advance?) | 12:16.29 |
| | and where is the font bbox etc set? | 12:16.44 |
| fontissue | I would like to install Ghostscript standard fonts of the package gs-fonts (http://sourceforge.net/projects/gs-fonts/) but Windows 7 won't let me. | 12:17.40 |
| | I have installed Ghostscript v9.10 | 12:18.16 |
| jad_jay | kens: the script tell me that OriginYTx is not defined | 12:18.23 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: I believe everything on fontforge is set in the glyph design window | 12:22.18 |
| | fontissue: the fonts are built into ghostscript now, you don't need them separately | 12:23.03 |
| jad_jay | kens: iN FACT YOUR MISTAKE IS AT LINE 244 | 12:24.26 |
| | Sorry for the shout | 12:24.34 |
| jad_jay | slaping himself | 12:24.45 |
| fontissue | chrisl: does that mean I don't have to install the fonts I am trying to install, since they have been installed when I installed Ghostscript? (sorry for my misunderstanding) | 12:25.36 |
| jad_jay | kens: It's the line 283 that I need to change | 12:26.17 |
| chrisl | fontissue: the fonts are actually built into the Ghostscript binary. So if you are using them with Ghostscript, you do not need to install them separately | 12:26.29 |
| fontissue | OK. But now if I want to use such fonts in, say, Adobe Illustrator, which uses the font installed in the system, what can I do? | 12:27.13 |
| chrisl | Then you would need to install them. *But* the Ghostscript fonts are equivalents of the Adobe PS/PDF font set which I would expect to be available to Illustrator already | 12:28.22 |
| | fontissue: FWIW, I'm not sure if Windows supports Postscript Type 1 fonts now - it certainly didn't previously | 12:29.24 |
| jad_jay | I really need a hint on the kens script... The script is okay but I want only one slide per page | 12:44.46 |
| | I know the solution is between the lines 283 and 317 | 12:45.34 |
| | but i can't figure out the ps script style :) | 12:45.49 |
| | It's a shame because it's well commented | 12:46.10 |
| tor8 | Robin_Watts: Element -> Font Info -> OS/2 | 12:46.19 |
| | Robin_Watts: Element -> Font Info -> General for non-ttf fonts | 12:46.44 |
| Robin_Watts | tor8: yeah, I just found that thanks. | 12:47.24 |
| | I've altered the values to be the same... and now bits are chopped off :( | 12:47.41 |
| tor8 | Robin_Watts: could you put the EFF archive on casper? (or add my .ssh keys to peeved) | 12:47.51 |
| Robin_Watts | Let me add you to casper. | 12:48.03 |
| | add you to peeved, even. | 12:48.13 |
| | oh, eck, no user on peeved. | 12:48.45 |
| | ok, I've made a tor user. Just let me copy the keys. | 12:50.59 |
| chrisl | jad_jay: can you share the PDF you're using? | 12:51.43 |
| jad_jay | a part yes | 12:52.09 |
| chrisl | Or any one that shows the error - the couple I've tried here work fine with kens's code | 12:53.29 |
| jad_jay | chrisl: I correct the code It works OK but I don't want 2 slides on each page I want Only 1, and I can't figure out how to modify the script to get this | 12:54.37 |
| | chrisl: I was something about OriginYTy wich has to be OriginYTx | 12:55.14 |
| Robin_Watts | tor8: Try ssh to peeved now ? | 12:56.11 |
| jad_jay | By the way sorry for my english it may burn out your eyes... | 12:56.12 |
| chrisl | jad_jay: we've seen *much* worse - no need to apologise | 12:56.31 |
| Robin_Watts | jad_jay: Yeah. There are /americans/ here :) | 12:56.47 |
| jad_jay | :) thank you | 12:56.58 |
| kens | jad_jay : I wrote that program this morning, I can't say it well tested | 12:57.21 |
| jad_jay | kens: no need to apologize, it's perfect | 12:57.40 |
| kens | In your case you just need to do the positioning and draw one page, not 2 | 12:57.58 |
| jad_jay | kens: :D I get that but I can't figure out ... | 12:58.26 |
| kens | So the loop counter needs to change, at the moment its doing increments of 2, because it draws 2 pages at a time. | 12:58.45 |
| jad_jay | In fact I don't need the loop ? | 12:58.46 |
| | Okay | 12:58.57 |
| kens | Well, do you have more than 1 page in the PDF file ? | 12:59.02 |
| jad_jay | Yes | 12:59.08 |
| kens | THen you need a loop | 12:59.16 |
| jad_jay | 0 1 PDFPageCount 1 sub PDFPageCount 2 mod add { | 12:59.23 |
| | is okay ? | 12:59.31 |
| kens | The loop goes 0 to < Number of Pages, step 2 | 12:59.32 |
| | Yes, but you don't need the PDFPageCOunt 2 mod add either | 12:59.56 |
| | That checks for an odd number of pages | 13:00.05 |
| | Because we want pairs of pages in the output | 13:00.22 |
| | SO you want 0 1 PDFPageCOunt 1 sub {...} | 13:00.34 |
| jad_jay | okay | 13:00.43 |
| kens | With correct capitalisation.... | 13:00.48 |
| jad_jay | okay, now i work but still 2 page on one | 13:01.27 |
| kens | You can throw away all the page size stuff too, unless you want to do the calculations for variable pages, I was assuming you had fixed change syou needed | 13:01.34 |
| | RIght so the loop has 2 calls to 'drawpagecontent' | 13:02.02 |
| jad_jay | Okay :) | 13:02.12 |
| kens | ANd increments the loop counter in between so that it accesses the 'next' page | 13:02.17 |
| | You want something like: | 13:02.36 |
| | save | 13:03.27 |
| | X Y translate | 13:03.27 |
| | pdfgetpage | 13:03.27 |
| | dup /Page exch store | 13:03.27 |
| | pdfshowpage_init | 13:03.27 |
| | draw_page_content | 13:03.28 |
| | restore | 13:03.28 |
| | X and Y you have to know, to move the page | 13:03.38 |
| | In PostScript the origin is bottom left, and the axes increase to the top and right | 13:04.13 |
| Robin_Watts | tor8: any luck? | 13:04.19 |
| jad_jay | I could keep the transform | 13:04.49 |
| kens | Up to you, I don't really know what your requirement is | 13:05.12 |
| | THe scaling, ortation and offsets are calculated to do 2-up on a single sheet | 13:05.39 |
| jad_jay | And I just need the first | 13:05.55 |
| kens | Taking into account the size of teh final media, and the size of the first page | 13:05.58 |
| | There's nothign clever in the calculation code, the fact that PostScript is stack based makes it odd to look at for people unused to they syntax that's all. You can rework teh calculations for your own needs | 13:07.13 |
| | Note that the code in that program expects that all the pages in the PDF file wil be the same size. Its obviously possible to resize each page individually, but that was more work than I felt like doing. | 13:08.16 |
| jad_jay | kens: Okay look for your code http://pastebin.com/TQjF6R4n | 13:09.04 |
| | If I cut from 299 to 312 | 13:09.15 |
| kens | DOn't remove 312 because you will end up with mismatches on teh stack, You are removing a 'restore' without removing its matchin 'save' | 13:10.19 |
| jad_jay | OK | 13:10.35 |
| | I got Error: /typecheck in --restore-- | 13:11.34 |
| kens | So the top object on the stack is not a save object | 13:11.56 |
| | Welcome to the joy of PostScript programming :-) | 13:12.06 |
| jad_jay | hum removing 300 to 311 | 13:12.20 |
| kens | This is because the pdfgetpage removes a dictionary from the stack, since you haven't called that, it leaves the dictionary behind. A dict is not a save object, so you get a type check error | 13:13.04 |
| | Hmm actgually I htink tha'ts rubbish, ignore it | 13:13.23 |
| jad_jay | the pdfgetpage ? | 13:13.47 |
| kens | But clearly something is being left on the stack that shouldn't be | 13:13.56 |
| | Oh of course, its the copy of the loop counter, which is used for the second page | 13:14.19 |
| Robin_Watts | kens, chrisl, tor8: OK, now I'm confused. I've set all the values I can find in the two fonts to be the same. | 13:14.28 |
| kens | replace the 'dup 1 add' in line 290 with '1 add' | 13:14.36 |
| jad_jay | after removed pdfget I got /typecheck in --.knownget-- | 13:14.45 |
| Robin_Watts | and I'm now showing bits of glyphs being chopped off. | 13:14.46 |
| | and indeed, when I ttfdump, the xmin/xmax/ymin/ymax values are different for the two fonts. | 13:15.07 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : sounds like some of the metrics are incorrect for the font in question | 13:15.08 |
| Robin_Watts | (as given in the 'head' table of the font) | 13:15.27 |
| kens | Is that HHEA? | 13:15.44 |
| Robin_Watts | how can I set those values within fontforge? (or by any other means, for that matter) | 13:15.47 |
| kens | Just a moment while I dig out my TT spec | 13:15.52 |
| jad_jay | Drawing page 1 | 13:15.58 |
| | Error: /typecheck in --.knownget-- | 13:15.59 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: you can't just change the metrics without reference to the outlines | 13:16.07 |
| kens | jad_jay : did you modify line 290 ? | 13:16.14 |
| jad_jay | kens yep | 13:16.27 |
| kens | chrisl well you can, but then bits go missing | 13:16.31 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: The outlines are REALLY close to being identical. | 13:16.33 |
| chrisl | jad_jay: so you just want the same layout as kens's code, just without the page combining? | 13:16.50 |
| kens | jad_jay : well, I'm afraid you're on your own, you need to figure out what's elft on the stack (try a pstack) then figure out why its there and remove it | 13:17.01 |
| jad_jay | chrisl: yes | 13:17.12 |
| | kens: thanks | 13:17.27 |
| chrisl | jad_jay: try this: http://pastebin.com/jJyAWWTm | 13:17.36 |
| | Note that I've hacked out a bunch of kens's comments as I can't be bothered editing them to match the revised code | 13:18.40 |
| jad_jay | chrisl: MARVELLOUS ! | 13:19.18 |
| chrisl | It works then? | 13:19.30 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : xMin yMin xMax and yMax shouldn't have much effect | 13:19.36 |
| | THey are in essence teh font bounding box | 13:19.53 |
| | I doubt fontforge will let you modify them | 13:20.08 |
| jad_jay | chrisl: You still have the mistake with OriginYTy line 239 :) | 13:20.08 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: which would explain why I'm getting descenders cut off. | 13:20.13 |
| kens | But you can use a binary editor | 13:20.15 |
| jad_jay | chrisl: It work yes ! | 13:20.23 |
| Robin_Watts | but that will break the checksum, right? | 13:20.26 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : nobody cares | 13:20.34 |
| chrisl | jad_jay: I just edited kens's code, so..... | 13:20.49 |
| jad_jay | kens: chrisl : Thanks a lot !!! | 13:20.57 |
| | ps scripting seems difficult but I will give it a try :) | 13:21.46 |
| | looks better than crosswords :) | 13:21.59 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : I modify TT fonts frequently, and nothing cares about checksums, though the MS tools will check them | 13:22.03 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: Ok. The hhea values look different too :( | 13:22.23 |
| kens | I can't say I'm terribly surprised | 13:22.36 |
| | I would suggest they are less likely to cause a problem | 13:23.10 |
| | THough the Descender might be relevant, maybe | 13:23.21 |
| fontissue | thank you, bye | 13:23.33 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: Can I edit them in fontforge? | 13:23.53 |
| kens | I have no idea | 13:24.01 |
| Robin_Watts | It would seem like a pretty major omission if I can't :( | 13:24.04 |
| kens | I never use FontForge | 13:24.08 |
| Robin_Watts | What do you use? | 13:24.19 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : you shouldn't need to, as they are (supposedly) derived from the glyph contours | 13:24.26 |
| chrisl | fontforge *may* generate certain metrics "on the fly" | 13:24.30 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : I use a binary editor | 13:24.35 |
| | I don't care about the contours, so I hack tables direclty as required | 13:24.49 |
| Robin_Watts | And your preferred binary editor is? | 13:25.05 |
| kens | Visual Studio :-) | 13:25.11 |
| Robin_Watts | ok :) | 13:25.19 |
| kens | is a man with a hammer | 13:25.20 |
| | FWIW I just ran the MS FOnt Validator on a font I have here and one of the problems it flagged is that the minLeftSideBearing does not equal the calculated value..... actual -415 calc 12 | 13:28.46 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: yeah. | 13:29.08 |
| kens | I should send that tool to Robin too | 13:29.14 |
| | Unless you have it ? | 13:29.22 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: this might be a useful thing to read (unless you already have): http://fontforge.org/editexample5.html | 13:32.01 |
| jad_jay | Thanks again bye bye | 13:32.26 |
| chrisl | too slow.... | 13:32.44 |
| | Hmm, I don't see a way to replace metrics "wholesale" in fontforge...... | 13:36.18 |
| Robin_Watts | grabs lunch. | 13:37.17 |
| | kens I have it I think. | 13:37.21 |
| | chrisl: I can see a tool being written :( | 13:37.36 |
| chrisl | reboots and lunches..... | 13:40.27 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : I knew you'd give in eventually :-) | 13:40.39 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: well, you kind of think that such a tool would have been written before... | 14:14.54 |
| kens | Mangling fonts isn't generally a good idea | 14:16.05 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: Yes, I've read (parts of) that before, thanks. | 14:18.00 |
| tor8 | Robin_Watts: use the fontforge scripting interface, or just hack the .sfd files (they're plain text) | 14:46.36 |
| Robin_Watts | tor8: From what I could see the scripting interface doesn't get me to this data. | 14:48.59 |
| | specifically the scripting interface can't change any values that can't be changed by the UI. | 14:49.22 |
| | What are .sfd files? | 14:49.26 |
| | oh, it's own format. | 14:50.05 |
| | I suspect the values in the header are generated from the glyphs automatically. | 14:50.30 |
| | so they won't be in the .sfd files. | 14:50.37 |
| | and so I can't edit them. | 14:50.43 |
| chrisl | Presumably, you're only changing the advance width? | 14:51.31 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: No. | 14:51.50 |
| | The fonts already exactly match advance width. | 14:52.00 |
| chrisl | So, just the kerning pairs, then? | 14:52.23 |
| Robin_Watts | No. | 14:52.29 |
| | kerning pairs are off a bit, but I can fix those in the GUI. | 14:52.41 |
| | The problem is that I still get massive differences in the spacing of the fonts. | 14:53.23 |
| chrisl | horizontal or vertical? | 14:54.00 |
| Robin_Watts | both, but most prominently vertical. | 14:54.12 |
| | Essentially, I believe that the outlines are close enough that the metrics should be entirely compatible. | 14:55.30 |
| | but I cannot set some of the metrics from the GUI. | 14:55.43 |
| | (i.e. it's font metrics, rather than glyph metrics that are the problem) | 14:55.58 |
| | hence I'm going to try copying the metrics across manually and we'll see what we get. | 14:56.27 |
| chrisl | Hmm, well, horizontal spacing should be advance width and kerning - if those match, then horizontal spacing should match. Vertical spacing will depend on what metric the app chooses to use (and what's available) | 14:56.44 |
| kens | TBH it seems like grabbing the tables from one file and replacing tehm in another with those would tell you quickly whether this is likely to work. Of coure you would need to update the table pointers if (as is likely) they are different sizes | 14:56.48 |
| | Can't you just knowck up a quick tool to do this in C ? | 14:57.33 |
| Robin_Watts | I am writing a C tool now. | 14:57.50 |
| kens | give it two fonts and copy the tables from one to another, creating a third 'merged' font | 14:57.52 |
| | aha ok | 14:57.55 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: do you know what the picsel code uses to calculate the line spacing? | 15:01.00 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: Not a clue. | 15:02.11 |
| chrisl | Perhaps that would be a good thing to find out? | 15:02.26 |
| Robin_Watts | In windows, if you click on a font, it opens a window with some text in in that font in different sizes. | 15:02.52 |
| | If I do that for both fonts and overlay the two I can see that the spacings are different etc. | 15:03.16 |
| | My plan is to get it so that the fonts look the same in that to start with. | 15:03.34 |
| | I like to think that the Picsel code must be behaving 'sanely'. | 15:03.52 |
| chrisl | But I don't know, and we've no way to find out what that tool uses for line spacing either | 15:04.02 |
| kens | getting WIndows to display the same seems like a reasonable target | 15:04.19 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: True, but it's probably going to be "the standard thing". | 15:04.34 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: unfortunately, many applications completely ignore the "standard thing" | 15:05.08 |
| kens | I suspect bopth probably use something like GetEmHeight() or GetCellDescent | 15:05.33 |
| chrisl | The "standard thing" should be the linegap value in the hhea table...... | 15:05.41 |
| kens | There's a GetLineSpacing() maybe they use that | 15:06.02 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: Right. so by cloning the values, we should get consistency. | 15:06.08 |
| kens | I ouwld like to think so | 15:06.20 |
| Robin_Watts | likewise. If this fails, I will swear some more and move on, but this has to be a reasonable first try. | 15:06.43 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: a lot of apps actually use the ascender/descender values, or the font BBox, and ignore the linegap value :-( | 15:07.08 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: Right, so if I copy the whole damn lot, we should still be fine. | 15:07.24 |
| chrisl | No, you can't just copy the font BBox, that really needs to be correct | 15:07.47 |
| henrys | chrisl: I do think we should get the open office specification, certainly it must have something about that. | 15:07.48 |
| chrisl | henrys: the file spec? It may just reference the TTF spec | 15:08.31 |
| | Robin_Watts: does changing the linegap value affect the display? | 15:09.25 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: sorry I was supposed to look at this yesterday and didn't get anything done with it. | 15:10.00 |
| kens | chrisl looking at the win32 API I suspect that the TEXTMETRICS structure is the relevant thing | 15:10.01 |
| chrisl | kens: that may not be relevant to the picsel code, though | 15:10.58 |
| henrys | I'm going to buy the spec anyway it can't hurt to have it. | 15:11.13 |
| kens | chrisl possibly not, but if they want to replicate the Office code they may have to come up with teh same info | 15:11.21 |
| | Fundamentally there are three important values, ascent, descent and leading | 15:11.47 |
| | Height is ascent+descent, leading is the linegap advance - Height AFAICT | 15:12.11 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Indeed, the spec can't hurt. | 15:12.11 |
| chrisl | kens: linegap is *usually* HEIGHT, but not necessarily. | 15:13.01 |
| henrys | chrisl, kens: with pcl which does many things like windows it isn't just metrics - but metrics + some crazy rounding gyrations. You wouldn't be able to figure it out without documentation. | 15:13.07 |
| kens | chrisl yes, but it need not be as you say | 15:13.17 |
| | henrys applicatiosn don't *have* to follow the TEXTMETRIC, just like PostScript you can draw the text as you want it. But I strongly suspect the viewer tool just uses the Height+leading, and in general I would expect Word to do the same (you cna of course change the leading and stuff in Word) | 15:14.31 |
| chrisl | henrys: I assumed that the weird fiddling that PCL does was an attempt to match Windows, but not necessarily a direct copy of what Windows implements..... | 15:14.31 |
| | kens: I just figured since the linegap is trivial to change, it would be easy to change it, and see if it had an influence. | 15:15.40 |
| kens | I guess, but Robin seemed to be having other problems | 15:16.02 |
| chrisl | Yeh, changing the linegap should not result in clipped glyphs :-( | 15:17.00 |
| ray_laptop | kens: I understand why the CET file only produces Black separations with the tiffsep device. The last page that works has SeparationOrder [ /Black ] but when it fails with Gray, the file doesn't reset back to all colors | 15:17.37 |
| kens | ray_laptop : ah, so that's why you get all the pages out. | 15:17.57 |
| | all the subsequent pages... | 15:18.21 |
| ray_laptop | kens: right -- but all with just the Black separation | 15:18.57 |
| kens | Yes, I unerstand. | 15:19.07 |
| chrisl | Are the ECMA OOXML standards up to date with the ISO ones? | 15:23.18 |
| | The ECMA ones are free, 4th edition Dec 2012: http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-376.htm | 15:24.23 |
| ray_laptop | but even though we return a rangecheck from devn_put_params (line 484) it doesn't bubble the error up as a configurationerror. Looking into that now. | 15:27.37 |
| kens | AH, that's odd, but its probably the source of the problem | 15:28.24 |
| henrys | chrisl: ah nice | 15:29.26 |
| | chrisl: the dates seem right | 15:29.35 |
| chrisl | henrys: It'll make things a bit easier - the ISO specs you have to buy seem to come with crazy restrictions | 15:30.54 |
| | henrys: also, given the age of the code, it might be handy having easy access to the earlier editions. | 15:32.19 |
| ray_laptop | I *HATE* the setpagedevice code. I can | 15:55.55 |
| kens | I just spent best part of 2 days ther convincing myself that Till's bug report wasn't a bug | 15:57.39 |
| ray_laptop | I can't get it to throw a configurationerror at all, even from: << /Garbage /X >> setpagedevice The -dSETPDDEBUG shows it processing with /undefined /Garbage on the stack | 15:57.44 |
| | but no error :-( | 15:58.05 |
| kens | I thought unrecognised keys in the dictionary weren't illegal | 15:58.23 |
| | Try setting <</PageSize /Broken>> setpagedevice | 15:58.41 |
| | That'll be a typecheck of course, not a configurationerror | 15:59.17 |
| chrisl | Er, unknown keys are ignored, aren't they? | 15:59.52 |
| ray_laptop | kens: that also doesn't give an error :-( | 16:00.12 |
| kens | Yes but that'sd what I mean, not illegal | 16:00.15 |
| | Oooh, I feel that really should.... | 16:00.26 |
| ray_laptop | kens: I guess I have to dive into the muck | 16:00.48 |
| kens | Yo have my sympathy.... | 16:01.05 |
| ray_laptop | kens: unless you want to ??? | 16:01.29 |
| ray_laptop | says hopefully | 16:01.34 |
| kens | Not unless you really want me to :-( | 16:01.40 |
| ray_laptop | kens: no, but I hope my screams of frustration don't wake you | 16:02.54 |
| kens | I'll take a poke at it if you get stuck, but I'm sure you can do at least as well as me | 16:04.11 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: just a thought the demo purposes: IIRC, the newer formats allow you to embed fonts used in the document - that *should* give results consistent across platforms | 16:05.10 |
| ray_laptop | chrisl: does the newer office embed the fonts automatically? If not, it doesn't seem like it would be used often. Also, what about 'protected' fonts ? Does it ever embed them (in violation of the DMCA) ? | 16:10.37 |
| marcosw | ray_laptop: I'm looking into how to embed fonts in word docments. Microsoft says it can be done (subject to licensing restrictions): http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290952 | 16:23.30 |
| ray_laptop | marcosw: well, unless it's automatic, we probably won't be finding files in the wild, so somebody wanting our viewer to display a document will still have the problem of not having the correct font (or any reasonable substitute) | 16:26.35 |
| | it seems like our GhostDocs converter/viewer needs to have the ability for users to add fonts (probably by sticking them in a folder that we check). At least that way they can handle docs by getting the font somewhere | 16:29.16 |
| | this isn't a lot different to PDF's that don't embed fonts. GS has the capability for users to add fonts and/or search font paths | 16:30.09 |
| marcosw | ray_laptop: I agree, I didn't even realize this was an option chrisl mentioned it. I found the well-hidden option in word 2013 and have generated a test document. I'll run it through GhostDocs and see what it looks like. | 16:30.12 |
| ray_laptop | does GhostDocs even look at embedded fonts ? | 16:30.39 |
| | (a question for paulgardiner and Robin_Watts ) | 16:30.56 |
| paulgardiner | Hi ray_laptop | 16:31.11 |
| ray_laptop | hi, paulgardiner. Sorry to wake you ;-) | 16:31.27 |
| Robin_Watts | ray_laptop: GhostDocs is capable of using embedded fonts, yes. | 16:31.50 |
| | at least in PDF files. | 16:31.53 |
| | no idea if it knows how to get them from word files. | 16:32.03 |
| paulgardiner | ray_laptop: My IRC client plays a jingle when my name shows up, so waking me up is literally a possibility. | 16:32.29 |
| ray_laptop | if the ability to embed fonts only appeared in 2013 office, it's not likely to | 16:32.33 |
| | paulgardiner: that's why I turned off my sound highlighting. It disturbs my beauty sleep ;-) | 16:33.05 |
| paulgardiner | ray_laptop: yeah, I can't help. The word agents weren't the parts of the code we worked on. | 16:33.19 |
| ray_laptop | lucky for you guys :-) | 16:33.38 |
| paulgardiner | Interesting point though. If it doesn't and many of these files have embedded fonts it would be another explanation for layout mismatches | 16:34.37 |
| | Oh just read the 2013 comment. Almost certainly not then | 16:35.16 |
| ray_laptop | paulgardiner: if this is a well hidden feature (as marcos says), then it's not at all likely that the fonts are embedded | 16:35.25 |
| marcosw | ray_laptop, et.al.: the embedded font .docx file still has different line spacing in GhostDocs than in pdf output from word. of course I don't know if the fonts are really being embedded, since the font licensing may be restricting their inclusion (also, as Robin_Watts points out, we don't know if GhostDocs makes use of embedded fonts). | 16:37.10 |
| | running unzip on the .docx file shows that the fonts are being embedded: | 16:38.08 |
| | 56528 Defl:S 36600 35% 1980-01-01 00:00 4b351f8d word/fonts/font6.odttf | 16:38.13 |
| | 778552 Defl:S 431712 45% 1980-01-01 00:00 cfa18888 word/fonts/font5.odttf | 16:38.13 |
| | 110436 Defl:S 68239 38% 1980-01-01 00:00 2cb635de word/fonts/font4.odttf | 16:38.13 |
| | 222356 Defl:S 132089 41% 1980-01-01 00:00 6376c914 word/fonts/font3.odttf | 16:38.13 |
| | 834240 Defl:S 477787 43% 1980-01-01 00:00 cce460c7 word/fonts/font2.odttf | 16:38.13 |
| | 811412 Defl:S 414562 49% 1980-01-01 00:00 540e8aa1 word/fonts/font1.odttf | 16:38.13 |
| | 758196 Defl:S 401367 47% 1980-01-01 00:00 c24b1216 word/fonts/font7.odttf | 16:38.14 |
| | Though I didn't think I used tha many fonts? | 16:38.31 |
| ray_laptop | marcosw: it looks like it is just stuffing the whole font in -- no attempt at substitution | 16:40.06 |
| marcosw | there is an option to subset the font but it defaults to off. You can also not embed "common" windows fonts, but I disabled that so all fonts are embedded. | 16:40.57 |
| Robin_Watts | So, something I have learned today... fonts contain details of where and how big strikeouts for them should be. | 16:41.43 |
| ray_laptop | that would make it easy for a user to export fonts to an app (ours?) by making a doc that used all the fonts they need and sending it with the app using an option to save them for use later on other docs | 16:41.46 |
| Robin_Watts | also where and how big sub and superscripts should be. | 16:41.59 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : only for T fonts | 16:42.11 |
| | TrueType^^ | 16:42.17 |
| Robin_Watts | yes, sorry. | 16:42.27 |
| marcosw | presumably a way to test GhostDocs making use of the fonts is to use a strange font (i.e. one of these <http://www.dafont.com/theme.php?cat=710>) and then see how it converts with GhostDocs. | 16:43.55 |
| | the answer is no. GhostDocs does not appear to make use of embedded fonts. I've uploaded abcd.docx to my directory on casper that includes an embedded font which clearly renders differently in GhostDocs than when opened in Word. I confirmed that that the embedding worked by opening the document in a different virtual machine with word 2007, it displayed the document correctly though the font is not installed in windows on that | 16:52.20 |
| | I figured out where the "extra" embedded fonts are coming from. They are "theme" fonts, apparently the default "blank document" has a default theme. | 16:55.56 |
| paulgardiner | marcosw: I'm probably missing something obvious, but I don't see how that confirms the non-use of embeded fonts in GhostDocs, just that if it does use them, doing so doesn't help with the layout. | 16:56.42 |
| marcosw | paulgardiner: sorry, I didn't explain myself very well. The abcd.docx uses a symbol font that ghostdocs renders as ABCD instead of the symbols that word displays, even on a different virtual machine that doesn't have the symbol font installed. | 16:59.51 |
| paulgardiner | Ah got you | 17:00.07 |
| marcosw | add "plus times roman" to my comment about theme fonts. it appears to be embedded even if not used in the document nor in the theme. | 17:03.05 |
| | ^times roman^times new roman | 17:03.26 |
| henrys | there are 4 parts to the spec, part 1 is 5000 pages, I'm glad we didn't pay for it. | 17:11.42 |
| Robin_Watts | gaaah. | 17:15.23 |
| | I have now copied all the relevant fields from arial to my new font. ttfdump shows that all the fields that could conceivably matter are now the same. | 17:16.07 |
| | and STILL I get vertical differences. | 17:16.18 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: based on the docs the file can explicitly set the spacing in 40 some-odd ways, naturarlly | 17:18.22 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: At the moment, I've put the whole ghostdocs problem to one side. | 17:18.46 |
| | I just want to get our 'clone' font to preview in windows like arial does. | 17:19.00 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: did you change the os/2 table. I thought windows used that. | 17:19.35 |
| Robin_Watts | oh yes. | 17:19.55 |
| henrys | i'm foggy on that | 17:19.57 |
| Robin_Watts | yes, I've changed the head, hhea and OS/2 tables. | 17:20.10 |
| | I've just found some metrics that don't match. | 17:20.18 |
| | but that only explains X differences. | 17:20.26 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: is the windows preview changing at all? | 17:21.56 |
| Robin_Watts | yes. | 17:22.02 |
| henrys | I was worried a substitution was occurring | 17:22.19 |
| ray_laptop | kens: It's been too long since I messed with this. Now I understand why we don't throw an error -- the default PolicyNotFound is 1 (ignore the request) | 17:22.28 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Actually, looking at it now, the clone font is much closer than before. | 17:23.00 |
| ray_laptop | kens: Now I have to see why we are getting the /undefined error with << /SeparationOrder [ /Purple ] >> setpagedevice | 17:23.50 |
| kens | well that seems like the right behaviour | 17:24.20 |
| ray_laptop | setpagedevice is supposed to either return a configurationerror or just ignore it | 17:24.21 |
| henrys | chrisl: ah I discovered gs_malloc_release() does get rid of the chunk stuff - in hindsight it would have to. Didn't think about it when norbert brought it up. | 17:38.29 |
| ray_laptop | kens: I understand why << /PageSize /X >> setpagedevice doesn't throw an error. There's a hack in gs_setpd.ps line 779-787 that ignores the request. This _does_ fail: << /PageSize /xx >> setpagedevice. | 17:59.26 |
| kens | boggles | 17:59.43 |
| ray_laptop | kens: yeah, me too | 17:59.59 |
| kens | goodnighht all | 18:00.37 |
| ray_laptop | I guess we could check for arraytype | 18:00.41 |
| | oops. I chased kens away ;-) | 18:01.02 |
| | screwier and screwier. The first .putdeviceparams with an invalid Separation name in the SeparationOrder request succeeds. The second time returns an invalid stack. At least that is done in C | 18:48.50 |
| | Found out why that's happening. It's a questionable assumption in devn_get_color_comp_index line 258. I probably need to consult with mvrhel about this. It effectively only allows separations to be added all at once. | 19:32.45 |
| Robin_Watts | My brain is incapable of letting my hands type "hmtx". It insists on doing "htmx" | 20:11.04 |
| ray_laptop | another problem. tiffsep has ENABLE_AUTO_SPOT_COLORS which adds a separation if one is in the SeparationOrder list and is not known (that's by design) but the num_separations is reset in devn_put_params line 545. | 20:19.30 |
| | I've fixed that one, now fixing the problem the other problem with the PS stack not being as expected when an error occurs | 20:20.20 |
| | Robin_Watts: at least it's not as bad as mis-typing "clist" | 20:21.08 |
| Robin_Watts | ok, so I've tried another technique... taking arial and knocking tables out... | 20:34.57 |
| | it seems that LTSH and VDMX make a difference. | 20:35.09 |
| | and hdmx, but only a tiny difference. | 20:35.50 |
| | I'd be prepared to bet that the epage code doesn't look at LTSH, so we have no hope of matching layouts exactly :( | 20:37.31 |
| ray_laptop | Robin_Watts: this appears to be for low resolution glyph positioning. When going to PDF, isn't the resolution high enough that linear scaling ? | 20:55.18 |
| | that linear scaling would be used ? | 20:56.05 |
| ray_laptop | speaks from almost total ignorance of font issues | 20:57.00 |
| mvrhel_laptop | bbiaw | 22:09.51 |
| ray_laptop | The SeparationOrder param handling is better (with my changes), but still strange. With the tiffsep device, if I set for just /Black, then try changing it to [ /Black /Cyan /Magenta /Yellow ] I end up with all components being /Black | 22:57.04 |
| | I think it may be mapping with the separation_order_map too many times | 22:57.53 |
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