| | <<<Back 1 day (to 2014/06/10) | 2014/06/11 |
| tor8 | chrisl_away: https://code.google.com/p/include-what-you-use/ | 09:28.04 |
| Zaister | any mupdf developers present? | 09:55.48 |
| tor8 | Zaister: yes, several. | 09:58.51 |
| Zaister | I mean presently :) | 09:59.08 |
| | can mupdf print at all? | 09:59.20 |
| tor8 | the ios and android apps can print; and the mudraw tool can generate CUPS rasters for printing but the desktop viewer isn't hooked up to any print pipeline | 10:00.03 |
| Zaister | I'm asking for this: I'm working on a mupdf backend for KDE's Okular, that was originally started by one of the Okular developers but never really maintained. I have brought up this code to the current mupdf code base, but printing is missing from the generator, and I wasn't sure if it is supported at all | 10:01.36 |
| tor8 | Zaister: right. I'm not very familiar with how KDE handles printing, but if it uses CUPS I would imagine that you could use MuPDF's PWG output for printing | 10:20.12 |
| | I know we've had some interest in using mupdf as a converter for some steps in the CUPS printing pipeline, but I don't think that project went much beyond generating PWG rasters | 10:21.27 |
| Zaister | OK I will check that out | 10:22.26 |
| | and another thing: does mupdf support page labels? | 10:23.21 |
| | I couldn't find anything in the sources that indicates that | 10:23.37 |
| tor8 | if you mean the extra strings that can be attached to a given page, like assigning roman numeral page numbers, then no, we don't support that | 10:24.05 |
| | it wouldn't be hard to add though | 10:24.12 |
| Zaister | yes that is what I mean | 10:24.21 |
| | it's a bit more complex, pdf defines page ranges, each with a separate nubmering scheme | 10:24.54 |
| | so for example for a book, you have "Front Matter" and "Content" | 10:25.14 |
| | front matter might use roman numerals, and content then starts at page 1 for the page that actually is page 1 in the book | 10:25.48 |
| | I've delved a bit into the PDF specifications and it seems non-trivial at least | 10:26.33 |
| | would you be open to for an implementation? | 10:26.54 |
| tor8 | yeah, you'll need to implement the "Number Trees" | 10:27.08 |
| Zaister | yes, exactly | 10:27.18 |
| tor8 | Zaister: if you open an enhancement request on the bugzilla we'll get to it eventually--or at least not forget it as soon as you log off IRC :) | 10:28.14 |
| Zaister | I meant open for someone else to implent it :) | 10:28.31 |
| | but I certainly can do that | 10:28.52 |
| tor8 | oh, yes. if you come up with a patch (and are willing to assign the copyright to artifex) we'll definitely consider taking it on | 10:29.07 |
| Zaister | OK, just wanted to check if trying to take this on is worth it | 10:29.39 |
| tor8 | and do feel free to hang around this channel and ask any questions about the mupdf code if you do decide to work on it | 10:30.55 |
| Zaister | thanks, I will | 10:31.18 |
| henrys | kens: if you get busy you can leave support questions for me. | 14:04.29 |
| kens | Thanks henrys, but you get them after I go off anyway :-) | 14:04.48 |
| | Things do some to have livened up since the staff meeting :-( | 14:05.59 |
| henrys | kens: marcosw vacation effect | 14:07.53 |
| kens | Ah, that would be it..... | 14:08.06 |
| el_mendi | Does anybod knows how to convert the Android Bitmap samples into an unsigned char * variable in order to introduce the samples in an Pixmap variable? | 14:35.42 |
| Robin_Watts | el_mendi: See MuPDFCore_drawPage in platform/android/jni/mupdf.c | 14:43.11 |
| el_mendi | ok | 14:43.30 |
| Robin_Watts | That takes a bitmap object, checks it's the right format, locks the pixels, renders to those pixels, and then unlocks and returns. | 14:43.50 |
| el_mendi | So I take the Bitmap object, lock the pixels with AndroidBitmap_lockPixels() and then create the pixmap with fz_new_pixmap_with_bbox_and_data() ? | 14:48.44 |
| | the bbox variable is the space in the page that contains de pixmaps does'n it? | 14:49.20 |
| Robin_Watts | yes. | 14:50.06 |
| el_mendi | If the image is bigger than the bbox will be resized itself depending on the zoom of the document? Or I will need to reescale the bitmap, loosing pixels, in order to fit in the bbox? | 14:50.58 |
| Robin_Watts | el_mendi: The page will be rendered onto the bitmap according to the transform you pass in. | 14:51.42 |
| | Any sections that do not fit will be cropped. | 14:51.52 |
| | The drawing routines will not magically attempt to guess scales etc. | 14:52.18 |
| el_mendi | So I need to set a transformation matrix in order to reescale the bitmap? | 14:56.20 |
| | but the samples of the bitmap will remain intact? | 14:56.37 |
| Robin_Watts | The bitmap is never 'rescaled'. | 14:57.19 |
| | We draw new content onto the bitmap with a given transformation matrix. | 14:57.58 |
| | We never 'rescale' what is already on the bitmap. | 14:58.12 |
| el_mendi | But then if the bbox must have the same size as the bitmap, when I specify the area of the page where the image will be drawn? | 15:04.59 |
| | I'm sorry if I don't explain myself better | 15:05.36 |
| Robin_Watts | el_mendi: I would generally expect the bbox to exactly match the size of the bitmap, yes. | 15:11.02 |
| | There are cases where you can use a bbox that is a subset of the page, when you only want to redraw a small section of the bitmaps contents (say when you've highlighted some text or something) | 15:11.43 |
| el_mendi | Yes, but in my case, that I want to introduce an image in an specified area of the page, I need a bbox? | 15:12.53 |
| Robin_Watts | el_mendi: For simplicity, I would start with just redrawing the whole page. | 15:13.35 |
| | Once you have that working, then maybe you can think about reducing the size of the bbox to save render time. | 15:14.00 |
| el_mendi | But I just want to create an Image Xobject in order to introduce it in the resources of the page, for that I need an fz_image object, and for that I need a pixmap object | 15:16.50 |
| | So if the pixmap just contains the whole information of my bitmap, and the image the same, do I suppose I must specify the render area in the Xobject variable? | 15:17.47 |
| Robin_Watts | Ah, that's a different kettle of monkeys. | 15:20.48 |
| | fz_image objects do NOT need to come from a pixmap object. | 15:21.46 |
| | fz_image objects generally have a compressed buffer of data. So a JPEG image would have a buffer of jpeg data. | 15:22.37 |
| | A tiff image would have a buffer of tiff data. | 15:22.48 |
| | A flate compressed PDF image would have a buffer of flate compressed data etc. | 15:23.17 |
| el_mendi | Yes | 15:23.25 |
| Robin_Watts | Ah, so you're trying to make an fz_image from an fz_pixmap, so you can call into the pdf_device, right? | 15:24.15 |
| el_mendi | yes | 15:24.33 |
| Robin_Watts | The code I pointed you at was passing in a bitmap to be drawn on. | 15:24.50 |
| | You'll be doing something different. | 15:25.00 |
| el_mendi | And I was trying to create the fz_pixmap from a Bitmpa object from Android | 15:25.00 |
| Robin_Watts | You'll be passing in a bitmap, and wanting to make an fz_pixmap from that. | 15:25.29 |
| el_mendi | yes | 15:25.35 |
| Robin_Watts | As such, you'll be wanting to set the bbox to be the complete bitmap. | 15:25.41 |
| el_mendi | And when I specify the area where I want to render the pdf_device? | 15:28.08 |
| | In the pdf_device dictionary? | 15:28.29 |
| Robin_Watts | I don't follow. | 15:28.49 |
| el_mendi | Sorry | 15:30.15 |
| | First I create the pixmap | 15:30.33 |
| | from my Bitmap object of, for example, 1024x760 pixels | 15:31.46 |
| | so the pixmap will contain 1024x760 samples | 15:32.11 |
| | then I create the fz_image object from that fz_pixmap | 15:32.26 |
| | so the image will be the same size | 15:32.34 |
| | isn't it? | 15:32.54 |
| Robin_Watts | It will contain 1024x760 pixels, so 1024x760x4 bytes (as each pixel is 4 bytes in RGBA format) | 15:33.13 |
| | Yes, the image will be the same size. | 15:33.19 |
| el_mendi | If I want to put my image in an area of, for example, one third of the image's area... | 15:33.54 |
| | Where I specify that? | 15:34.14 |
| | I mean the page's area in which I will put the image | 15:35.41 |
| Robin_Watts | Once you have an image, you will be calling an fz_device function to place that image onto the page, right? | 15:36.46 |
| | fz_fill_image or something. | 15:37.23 |
| | That takes the device pointer, the image, and a matrix with which to scale the image. | 15:37.53 |
| | conceptually, IIRC, the image is treated as a 1x1 square, and is scaled by the matrix onto the page. | 15:38.19 |
| | hence the x and y parts of the matrix will set the lower left corner of the image. | 15:38.36 |
| | and the a and d will set the width/height of the image on the page. | 15:38.48 |
| el_mendi | So... lets see if I undestood: I create the fz_pixmap, then fz_image, then a pdf_device in which I introduce my image with the function send_image() and then I call fz_fill_image with the dimensions and position of the image? | 15:43.05 |
| Robin_Watts | el_mendi: If you are using the pdf_device, then you shouldn't need to call send_image. | 15:43.54 |
| | fz_fill_image will cause the pdf_device to call send_image internally. | 15:44.28 |
| | If you are working *without* the pdf_device then you'll need to call something like send_image yourself. | 15:44.51 |
| | You may be interested in looking at: http://git.ghostscript.com/?p=user/robin/mupdf.git;a=summary | 15:45.45 |
| | The 4th and 5th commits on there are likely to be of interest to you. | 15:46.10 |
| | But this code is NOT likely to go in exactly like that. | 15:46.30 |
| | and may not go in at all for a while at least. | 15:46.42 |
| el_mendi | ok ok, is just to see something similiar and try to figure out how to do it by myself | 15:47.21 |
| Robin_Watts | el_mendi: The most difficult bit of what you are doing is probably going to be hooking up the pdf_device so that it can safely 'extend' the page contents. | 15:48.42 |
| | And that's exactly what those 2 commits do. | 15:48.57 |
| el_mendi | ok | 15:50.56 |
| | one question | 15:51.02 |
| | the pdf_device contains all the contents of the document? | 15:51.19 |
| Robin_Watts | No. | 15:52.38 |
| | I'll try to explain. We'll have to start with some background. | 15:53.43 |
| | The way mupdf works is that it can open various different file formats. | 15:54.02 |
| | You can get 'fz_page' objects that correspond to particular pages from the document. | 15:54.28 |
| | You can then 'run' those pages through various different 'fz_devices'. | 15:54.44 |
| | These different devices do different things. | 15:55.00 |
| | For instance the draw device actually renders the contents of the page. | 15:55.10 |
| | the text extraction device extracts the text from the page for searching etc. | 15:55.27 |
| el_mendi | aaah ok | 15:55.43 |
| Robin_Watts | The list device stores the raw graphical objects from the page in a list so it can be replayed back later etc. | 15:55.57 |
| | So the 'input' to a given device are the raw graphical operations that make up a page. | 15:56.29 |
| el_mendi | aha | 15:56.47 |
| Robin_Watts | The PDF device is a partially written attempt to allow us to convert other formats into PDF. | 15:56.53 |
| | That is, it converts the raw graphical operations it is called with back into a stream of PDF operators, and a set of resources. | 15:57.23 |
| | Currently it works by creating a new page in the document (or overwriting an old one) | 15:57.47 |
| | Now, you want something that takes your new content as input - the pdf device does that. | 15:58.56 |
| | but you really want your content *added* to a page, not overriding the page. | 15:59.15 |
| | and the pdf device does not do that currently. | 15:59.29 |
| | but with those two commits, it can. | 15:59.37 |
| el_mendi | so I need to save the previous content of the page | 15:59.42 |
| Robin_Watts | No, you need to use the two commits. | 16:00.10 |
| el_mendi | add the new content and then create a pdf device with the previous content and the new together as input | 16:00.20 |
| | ok ok | 16:00.24 |
| Robin_Watts | You call pdf_clean_page_contents on the page you want to add your changes to, and pass in a function that will be called back. | 16:00.55 |
| | That will clean the page contents, and will call your function back. | 16:01.14 |
| | Your function will then make a pdf_device from the buffer you are passed (that contains the current page contents) | 16:01.46 |
| | Then you call fz_draw_image() to put your image on the page, and update the resources. | 16:02.05 |
| | then you close the device. | 16:02.16 |
| | Then you return to pdf_clean_page_contents, which sets the newly cleaned data + your extras back into the document. | 16:02.39 |
| | and that should be it. | 16:02.55 |
| el_mendi | Wow, that was very useful! | 16:03.17 |
| | But.. I didn't understand what do you mean wit pass in a function that will be called back | 16:04.34 |
| | I need to create a function to create the pdf_device with a buffer in the arguments and call it from the function pdf_clean_page? | 16:05.20 |
| Robin_Watts | Apply the commits, then look at pdf_clean_page_contents. | 16:05.21 |
| | You'll see that one of the arguments it takes is a function pointer. | 16:05.38 |
| el_mendi | ah right | 16:06.48 |
| | And do I need to do something special when I create my function in order that I can pass it as an argument? | 16:07.48 |
| Robin_Watts | el_mendi: Nope. | 16:08.33 |
| el_mendi | Ok, so the function must return the new buffer? | 16:09.25 |
| Robin_Watts | el_mendi: The function is passed the new buffer for it to modify. | 16:10.46 |
| | Apply the commits and look. | 16:10.55 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: looking at the digital signing craziness. I canât believe other developers are paying 1000âs for EV | 16:14.36 |
| | mvrhel_laptop: maybe we should just forget about this and be âuntrusted" | 16:15.26 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: perhaps. I was not aware it was that much | 16:16.01 |
| henrys | well if we want âEVâ - https://evcs.websecurity.symantec.com/evcs/process/enrollment | 16:19.18 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Do we really want a hardware token to protect our keys? | 16:20.21 |
| mvrhel_laptop | these guys do it too. http://www.digicert.com/code-signing/ev-code-signing.htm | 16:21.20 |
| Robin_Watts | http://webdesign.about.com/od/ssl/tp/cheapest-ssl-certificates.htm | 16:21.55 |
| henrys | Iâm just looking at best practices here: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2012/08/14/microsoft-smartscreen-amp-extended-validation-ev-code-signing-certificates.aspx I donât know the implementation details of how these things are secured. | 16:21.58 |
| Robin_Watts | http://www.sslshopper.com/cheap-code-signing-certificates.html | 16:22.48 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: yes I was reading that same thing | 16:24.22 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: right but that doesnât get you the âbestâ trust from MS | 16:24.28 |
| mvrhel_laptop | symantec and digicert appear to be the 2 primary ones | 16:24.56 |
| henrys | see the best practices link | 16:25.03 |
| mvrhel_laptop | Digicert appears to be less | 16:25.07 |
| | $ | 16:25.10 |
| | $331/ year | 16:25.44 |
| | This seems like a $$ making racket | 16:26.09 |
| Robin_Watts | The first column in the "cheap-code-signing-certificates" was for DigiCert. | 16:26.15 |
| mvrhel_laptop | yes | 16:26.19 |
| | ok. I will review all of this. | 16:26.54 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: thatâs not EV is it? | 16:27.07 |
| Robin_Watts | https://www.digicert.com/order/order-1.php | 16:27.14 |
| | $469 for 2 years EV | 16:27.28 |
| mvrhel_laptop | http://www.digicert.com/code-signing/ev-code-signing.htm | 16:27.42 |
| Robin_Watts | or $295 for one year. | 16:28.15 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I see 449 / year | 16:28.32 |
| | is it cheaper where you are? | 16:29.00 |
| Robin_Watts | What do you see here: https://www.digicert.com/order/order-1.php | 16:29.18 |
| mvrhel_laptop | If I selecte EV code signing | 16:29.45 |
| | I see 995 / 3 years | 16:29.55 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: it just seems crazy to me for gsview | 16:29.56 |
| Robin_Watts | oh, sorry! | 16:30.03 |
| | yeah, ev code signing = 331.67 a year for 3 years. | 16:30.27 |
| | or 449 for one. | 16:30.38 |
| mvrhel_laptop | right | 16:30.43 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: have you also looked at the windows logo thing? is that something we want to pursue or just signing. | 16:31.16 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: I have not looked at any of this stuff yet. | 16:31.37 |
| Robin_Watts | Urm... Surely we just want to look at what requirements steam has? | 16:31.51 |
| | If we can sell gsview on steam without any of this signing rubbish, we should just do that. | 16:32.12 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I will look over that too | 16:32.34 |
| Robin_Watts | I have a friend who is an indie developer, and has stuff in on steam. I'm sure he doesn't have this whole certificate shakedown. | 16:32.48 |
| mvrhel_laptop | that is what if feels like at these subscription prices | 16:33.05 |
| | s/if/it/ | 16:33.10 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: well I was trying to offload this from you. Maybe we should just be responsible for producing the binary and the rest is a marketing problem for miles and his new IT guy. | 16:34.44 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: I agree to some extent. I do want to have some recommendations and an understanding of what I need to have wrapped up in the real installer | 16:35.40 |
| | I am suprised the cost of stuff on steam (that is what people are paying) there is real money to be made there | 16:36.15 |
| Robin_Watts | mvrhel_laptop: A lot of steam sales are at discounted prices (sales etc) | 16:36.46 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ok | 16:36.55 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: yes if you make gsview into a game Iâm sure it would do great ;-) | 16:37.09 |
| Robin_Watts | but it's the most reliable delivery system out there. | 16:37.10 |
| mvrhel_laptop | :) | 16:37.22 |
| Robin_Watts | Even if you buy games in a shop these days, they are actually steam behind the scenes most of the times. | 16:37.38 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kids this is the most fun pdf reader out there! | 16:37.39 |
| henrys | is skeptical of the gsview commercial potential in general | 16:37.46 |
| Robin_Watts | steam does free to play stuff, with in-app purchases. | 16:38.55 |
| | That's the way we should be going IMHO. | 16:39.00 |
| Robin_Watts | ponders "Achievements"... | 16:39.49 |
| | "You have distilled a PS file!" | 16:40.02 |
| henrys | I was thinking a puzzle where the user has to figure out which pdf object should go next. | 16:40.49 |
| | I really was not up on this though, why doesnât microsoft have a fit? Apple wouldnât like a competing store at all. | 16:42.48 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: steam came before the app store. | 16:43.11 |
| | steam came before the apple app store. | 16:43.20 |
| henrys | so there are not apps for ipad, surface etc? | 16:43.55 |
| | on steam | 16:44.26 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I see that Adobe Acrobat Pro is now a monthly subscription | 16:44.32 |
| | $19/month | 16:44.35 |
| Robin_Watts | windows, linux, steamos, mac. | 16:44.38 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: over time as we add features there is a market for a cheaper solution for what they are offering | 16:45.46 |
| | looks like all their stuff is now subscription based | 16:46.28 |
| | yuck | 16:46.35 |
| Robin_Watts | yeah, adobe do everything by subscription now. | 16:46.57 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: indeed and a lot of folks donât want subscription - itâs the only option for CS as now as I understand it. | 16:47.03 |
| mvrhel_laptop | yes. I did not realize that until now | 16:47.15 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: everybody complained but the revenues worked for adobe so they wenât with it. | 16:47.29 |
| mvrhel_laptop | makes me think that we really should just do the MS certification and have a "trusted" option for people | 16:48.05 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: of course you completely eliminate the pirates. | 16:48.11 |
| mvrhel_laptop | true | 16:48.17 |
| | although I am sure someone will come up with a way around it | 16:49.12 |
| kens | goodnight all | 16:49.20 |
| mvrhel_laptop | bye kens | 16:49.32 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Nah, the pirates will just work a bit harder. | 16:50.07 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: getting back to the original issue we want to get you into SOT as soon as possible and you really can use up a lot of time sorting out how to market. We can tell miles Robin_Watts recommends steam and let him go figure out what we need to do. | 16:54.44 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: I agree. Lets me wrap up a few things on the installer that I want to get fixed. I won't worry about authentication etc then. | 16:55.52 |
| Robin_Watts | When are we going to think about doing the chargeable stuff? | 16:56.23 |
| mvrhel_laptop | There don't appear to be any crashing bugs and I fixed an annoying scrolling issue that kens had found. | 16:56.32 |
| Robin_Watts | I suspect that for valve to let us onto steam they need a way to get their percentage. | 16:56.55 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: oh no free apps on steam? | 16:57.17 |
| Robin_Watts | so they might not be keen on carrying us for free until we have the in app purchases working. | 16:57.18 |
| | no free apps that don't have in app purchases. | 16:57.48 |
| | or perhaps no free apps at all. Only 'free to play games with in app purchases'. | 16:58.07 |
| mvrhel_laptop | well maybe that is not the best approach. Miles thought his guy could get everything set up for us to do it on our own | 16:59.52 |
| | lets let them worry about it for now | 17:00.08 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: itâs really Miles stuff - letâs get the binary up on gsview.com and put marketing it in the agenda assigned to Miles and he can solicit recommendations | 17:00.10 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: can't argue with that :) | 17:08.41 |
| | The only danger is that we ship something now for free that we later want to make chargeable. | 17:09.04 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: do you want to disable some stuff? Is that where this is going? | 17:14.09 |
| | then weâre left with this feature is available in the commercial version that doesnât exist. | 17:15.25 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: no. right this sec I am fixing it so that different icons are used for pdf, ps, xps etc file types. Right now nothing is going to be disabled. My hope is that the windows users of us will use this as our main viewer for a couple months and beat out any issues | 17:15.45 |
| | I don't see this getting released until sept. | 17:16.00 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: okay I thought we could get it out now. nvm | 17:16.25 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I would hope between now and then I can tweak a few things and figure out what we want disabled / enabled | 17:16.26 |
| | no, I have been using it for a while as my default, but I think now it is at the point where others could try but an annoying thing to me is that all my file types had the same icon | 17:17.13 |
| | at least PS = PDF = XPS etc | 17:17.24 |
| | we def. want printing fixed too before we release | 17:17.47 |
| | that is the xps write stuff | 17:17.54 |
| | with the text | 17:18.03 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: true | 17:19.00 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: you there? | 19:23.01 |
| | So I am at what I consider a reasonable stopping point in gsview. There are always going to be things I would like to add (e.g. annotation, password stripping and password addition). I may get to those later this summer. But for now I think it is in a reasonable state where people can play with it. | 19:24.21 |
| | I updated the installer in my gsview directory on casper | 19:24.48 |
| | All the code is current and rebased on my branch also | 19:25.12 |
| | henrys: so I will now go and wrap up the loose end with kens and ICC | 19:25.28 |
| | it would be nice still to add in page insertion into gsview. I had chatted with tor about that | 19:26.07 |
| | if he was able to add it to mutool, then I can use that right away | 19:26.18 |
| | I really think that is required on a tool that we are going to charge $$ for | 19:26.47 |
| | anyway off to lunch | 19:26.53 |
| henrys | takes many submits to create one customer bug report, no bugzilla kung foo | 20:17.46 |
| | or fu rather | 20:18.23 |
| | Forward 1 day (to 2014/06/12)>>> | |
IRC Logs