| | <<<Back 1 day (to 2014/08/27) | 2014/08/28 |
| henrys | tor8: who holds the mupdf ios account we really should be keeping an eye on stats now that we are charging. I'm not sure miles is tracking it. | 13:53.15 |
| jogux | henry: it's in the normal artifex one - ie. same account as smartoffice | 14:04.52 |
| | I can quickly get a few stats if you're okay with me sharing here? | 14:05.05 |
| jogux | tells henrys the figures on skype :) | 14:07.54 |
| chrisl | Huh, weird, skype works now - I wondered it wouldn't work on Tuesday...... | 14:11.29 |
| rayjj | maybe skype was impacted by TWC | 14:13.25 |
| chrisl | It seemed to be okay for everyone else | 14:13.46 |
| tor8 | henrys: what jogux said :) | 14:23.18 |
| mvrhel_laptop | morning rayjj. you should get your package tomorrow | 15:48.16 |
| rayjj | mvrhel_laptop: thanks. Having TWC problems in the office :-( | 15:51.04 |
| | the internet is up, but their DNS servers don't respond. I can use 8.8.8.8 but theirs are both non-responsive | 15:51.56 |
| mvrhel_laptop | oh didnt realize there was an issue. reading about that now | 15:52.00 |
| rayjj | mvrhel_laptop: I'm not really *down* (otherwise I couldn't connect here) | 15:52.41 |
| Robin_Watts | tor8: Did you push the revised mupdf test device yet? | 16:22.40 |
| | And does the default threshold value get the page determinations right for pdf_reference17.pdf? | 16:23.53 |
| | There are some pages on there that need a bit of a threshold. | 16:24.02 |
| rayjj | ebay has a "daily deal" on Samsung 500Gb SSD 2.5 incn (laptop) for $200 :-) | 16:29.46 |
| | I have the 1Tb in my laptop, and it really helps on some stuff | 16:30.25 |
| | have to run something over to the school. bbiab. | 16:32.46 |
| SpNg | is there a way to convert fonts to outlines progamatically? | 18:49.22 |
| Robin_Watts | SpNg: Yes. | 18:58.02 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: how would I achieve this? | 18:58.21 |
| Robin_Watts | In postscript, presumably? | 18:58.25 |
| chrisl | You can write a font interpreter..... | 18:58.55 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: so postscript can do this? | 18:58.56 |
| Robin_Watts | Use "charpath" | 18:59.14 |
| chrisl | SpNg: it somewhat depends on what you're trying to achieve | 19:00.23 |
| | Bearing in mind that scalable font formats are stored as "outlines" to start with | 19:01.07 |
| SpNg | chrisl: so when I open say a logo in Illustrator and it says âmissing fontâ Iâm hoping to remedy this. I would like to remove the font dependency for the file. | 19:01.38 |
| chrisl | SpNg: ah, well, your first and best option is to embed the font..... | 19:02.08 |
| Robin_Watts | SpNg: Surely the easiest way is to tell illustrator to convert from text to paths ? | 19:02.21 |
| SpNg | so Iâm taking in files from random people. I analyze the file and error if the font has not been embedded. what Iâm thinking though is if I can build up a font library, I can convert to outlines for them to avoid the back and forth. | 19:03.31 |
| chrisl | SpNg: if you've got the font, what not embed it? | 19:04.04 |
| | SpNg: the output will be better if you use the font, rather than a "normal" path | 19:04.58 |
| SpNg | chrisl: it seems to me that embedding the font is extra file size that is unnecessary. the file is final. | 19:04.58 |
| Robin_Watts | SpNg: In Xara, I'd do: Select All -> convert text to paths -> save | 19:05.04 |
| | I imagine it's something similar with Illustrator. | 19:05.14 |
| | Why not just get everyone who submits files to do that first? | 19:05.24 |
| chrisl | SpNg: if you can't change the input file, you can't replace the font glyphs with outlines | 19:05.45 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: that;s what I do in Illustrator too. Iâm taking in 1000s of these files. right now I do error out and let the user know. Iâm just exploring the possibility of doing this for the user to make their life easier | 19:06.13 |
| chrisl | SpNg: and anything beyond *really* trivial uses, the font it probably smaller than the combined paths | 19:06.30 |
| SpNg | chrisl: all the files Iâm taking in are logos | 19:06.51 |
| chrisl | SpNg: So? | 19:07.08 |
| SpNg | embedding the font for them is an interesting idea though. I could modify the eps file for them | 19:07.15 |
| | chrisl: I figured the text in a logo would be considered âtrivialâ ;-) | 19:07.36 |
| chrisl | SpNg: possibly, it's hard to generalise. I doubt you'll be able to do this without regenerating the Postscript, though. | 19:08.26 |
| | SpNg: you should also be aware that logos often use fonts designed specifically for the logo owner, so it's not always wise to rely on the font name being unique | 19:09.58 |
| SpNg | chrisl: thatâs what I figured. I just didnât know if a solution had been developed for this situation before. | 19:10.11 |
| | chrisl: also a good point. maybe itâs just best to error out and let the user know why | 19:10.22 |
| chrisl | SpNg: the solution is to tell your users to *always* embed fonts. Or, as Robin_Watts says, have the design app "flatten" the fonts | 19:10.53 |
| SpNg | thatâs what Iâm thinking too, and is currently what I do. | 19:11.16 |
| chrisl | SpNg: I've honestly lost count of the number of totally different "logo.ttf" fonts I've seen! | 19:12.24 |
| SpNg | chrisl: haha! so true. generic names for custom fonts⦠| 19:13.11 |
| chrisl | SpNg: it can be a pain - just like all the people that submit "problem.pdf" to us! | 19:14.00 |
| | SpNg: FWIW, the next Ghostscript release will have a command line option for ps2write and pdfwrite that "flattens" glyphs into paths - but you still need the font available, of course | 19:14.41 |
| SpNg | haha, problem.pdf. so lame. ;-) | 19:16.26 |
| | Thatâs good to know about the upcoming release | 19:16.45 |
| chrisl | the command line will be -dNoOutputFonts | 19:17.08 |
| SpNg | is parsing AI files ever going to be on the roadmap? | 19:17.12 |
| | or conerting to ps to SVG? | 19:17.26 |
| Robin_Watts | never say never, but... never. | 19:17.41 |
| | PS to SVG more possible, but not soon. | 19:17.55 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: haha. so funny | 19:18.14 |
| chrisl | Parsing AI *should* mostly work, aren't they just "fancy" PDFs? | 19:18.17 |
| SpNg | AI files is one of the most common types people try to through our way. I wish there was a good convertor from AI to EPS | 19:18.46 |
| chrisl | There is - Illustrator! | 19:19.02 |
| | For some small value of "good" | 19:19.13 |
| SpNg | chrisl: haha. well Iâm looking for a way to do it from the comamnd line⦠and setting up a cluster of illustrator instances to script is not a good idea | 19:19.46 |
| chrisl | SpNg: my memory is vague on this, but IIRC, old school Illustrator files were basically Postscript with some application specific "special sauce" in them. Newer versions are PDF based, with similar special stuff. | 19:21.01 |
| SpNg | chrisl: thatâs my high level understanding | 19:21.19 |
| Robin_Watts | SpNg: Can you mail me a simple .ai file please? | 19:21.43 |
| chrisl | SpNg: as such, they generally can be interpreted by Ghostscript | 19:21.51 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: yeah. what email? | 19:21.56 |
| Robin_Watts | robin.watts at artifex.com | 19:22.06 |
| chrisl | From wikipedia: "XnView uses Ghostscript to handle AI, EPS, PS, and PDF; this might work for AI files saved with the PDF compatibility option." | 19:23.23 |
| | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Illustrator_Artwork | 19:23.30 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: sent | 19:24.15 |
| chrisl | What I don't know is whether the "special" stuff used in them affects the rendering, or if it's all just structural stuff (layers, etc) | 19:25.09 |
| SpNg | chrisl: ok interesting | 19:25.35 |
| | When I look inside the files they do look like PostScript for the most part, but Iâm no expert. Iâm not sure how much special tuff they have in there⦠| 19:26.13 |
| Robin_Watts | Looks like a pdf file to me. | 19:26.46 |
| | gs displays it. | 19:26.51 |
| chrisl | They shifted to a PDF based format, IIRC, when it became CS | 19:27.20 |
| Robin_Watts | Looks to be a big metadata thing in there with adobe specific XML crap. | 19:27.51 |
| chrisl | That's almost certainly the special stuff - I think in the old EPS based format, they used formatted comments (but don't quote me!) | 19:28.50 |
| Robin_Watts | Plus /AIMetaData /AIPrivateData1 to 4. | 19:29.03 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: well thatâs great news. | 19:29.09 |
| Robin_Watts | ok, so every page has a /PieceInfo<</Illustrator ... >> thing that points to the AI specific data. | 19:30.07 |
| | I think you can probably just throow them at gs. | 19:30.22 |
| chrisl | SpNg: I'm not sure what the AI files looks like if you don't opt for the "PDF compatible" option, though..... | 19:30.22 |
| SpNg | chrisl: let me try to make another one here and see if I can turn that off. | 19:30.47 |
| chrisl | Many people do view them in gs - but it's usually not critical we get them right, they just want an idea of what the thing looks like | 19:31.26 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: I just sent you another file with PDF compatible turned off. | 19:32.24 |
| | chrisl: ok interesting. yeah Iâm acutually taking in the files and rendering them for use. | 19:32.42 |
| chrisl | SpNg: my idea would be to use gs to convert the AI to PDF, and return the PDF to the customer with a "please proof read this before we continue", and include instructions about exporting EPS or PDF for them to follow if the proof is incorrect. | 19:33.36 |
| Robin_Watts | still a PDF file. | 19:34.05 |
| chrisl | I wonder if the PDF compatible option is now defunct...... | 19:34.40 |
| Robin_Watts | Oh, but when you render it: "This an Adobe Illustrator file that was saved without PDF content." | 19:34.47 |
| chrisl | Ah! | 19:35.02 |
| | SpNg: well, at least you have an obvious way to check whether gs can handle it | 19:35.32 |
| SpNg | chrisl: that is ideal! Robin_Watts is that a gs error that is spit out on the command line? | 19:35.59 |
| Robin_Watts | SpNg: No. It's just the rendered version of the file. | 19:36.21 |
| chrisl | SpNg: no, that's rendered on the page - you can probably use the txtwrite device to look for that | 19:36.38 |
| SpNg | chrisl: how does the txtwrite help me? I can convert text from a file to the command line? | 19:37.36 |
| Robin_Watts | gs -sDEVICE=txtwrite -o - infile.ai | grep "This is an Adobe" | wc -l | 19:38.25 |
| | If that gives you 0 then you're OK to render it. If non-zero... you're not. | 19:38.48 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts types faster than I do at this time of night! | 19:39.00 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: I just tried that on the file I sent you and it returned 0 | 19:40.21 |
| chrisl | SpNg: what version of gs are you using? | 19:41.12 |
| SpNg | chrisl: 9.07 | 19:41.22 |
| Robin_Watts | SpNg: Just run the first part of that command and see what comes out. | 19:41.31 |
| | (without the pipe to grep) | 19:41.38 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: I tried that too and nothing outputs after the âThis software comes with NO WARRANTYâ¦â | 19:42.12 |
| Robin_Watts | Upgrade to a newer gs then. | 19:42.43 |
| chrisl | Possibly the "text" isn't really text? | 19:42.48 |
| Robin_Watts | chrisl: It comes out as text here. | 19:43.06 |
| chrisl | Ah, okay. Well, txtwrite has had a lot work since 9.07 | 19:43.25 |
| SpNg | I can upgrade this afternoon and see if that fixed it | 19:44.05 |
| Robin_Watts | It's 20:45 for both chrisl and I, so we may not be around. | 19:44.49 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: thatâs ok. i can catch you guys tomorrow. ;-) | 19:45.08 |
| | I need to do a few things to get the upgrade installed | 19:45.24 |
| | my vm is running out of hd space so I need to go fiddle with that so I can do the upgrade | 19:45.40 |
| | I keep avoiding fixing it, but now itâs time | 19:45.55 |
| chrisl | I think my brain's melted - I'm done for the today....... | 20:01.04 |
| tor8 | Robin_Watts: not pushed, but it's on tor/master if you think it's good enough | 21:56.02 |
| Robin_Watts | tor8: Yeah, it's fine. We should push it, cos I promised the customer it would be there before the end of this week. | 22:42.30 |
| | I just pushed it. | 22:54.59 |
| SpNg | Robin_Watts: just so you know, upgrading to 9.14 Iâm now able to get the text output on that .ai file | 23:21.53 |
| | Forward 1 day (to 2014/08/29)>>> | |
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