| | <<<Back 1 day (to 2014/11/24) | 20141125 |
| mvrhel_laptop | got my fancy print dialog working for gsview. just need to do a little thinking about how best to handle individual pages. right now the whole doc is converted to xps and then that is provided for the print job. a better way would be to serve up the pages as needed xps form and provide them. need to see if that is possible | 06:26.39 |
| chrisl | reboot.... | 10:13.54 |
| kens | ROFL I had no idea Boris held dual citizenship :-) | 13:36.16 |
| Robin_Watts | Apologies, I forgot Tor. That's 17 we need a table for. | 13:41.04 |
| kens | Like I said, ifg there's a problem Stella and I cna drop out. | 13:41.22 |
| Robin_Watts | kens: I'm sure we'll sort something out. | 13:42.16 |
| kens | Picking a venue would be a good start :-) | 13:42.34 |
| Robin_Watts | I am happy to ring either Rules (or Simpsons) to see if we can get tables, but I think that's dependent on us all being prepared to foot our own bills. | 13:44.11 |
| kens | We're good with either of those, and I didn't really expect Miles to pay for us on Friday | 13:44.37 |
| Robin_Watts | Otherwise we pick a restaurant close to the hotel with cuisine that everyone will agree to. | 13:44.39 |
| | I suspect we have more chance of a group booking at Simpsons than Rules, given the layouts of the restaurants. | 13:45.17 |
| kens | has not yet been to either | 13:45.31 |
| Robin_Watts | But we need to check that Michael is happy with either of those, cos he has kids. | 13:45.39 |
| | I'm confused by code in mupdf. | 13:54.38 |
| kens | O.O | 13:54.45 |
| | I'm confused by code in Ghostscript :-( | 13:55.01 |
| Robin_Watts | tor8, paulgardiner: We read the xrefs in, and we have an array of them, one for each incremental update. | 13:55.05 |
| | They are numbered 0 to xref->num_xref_sections-1 | 13:55.27 |
| jogux | robin: I'm happy with either of your restaurant suggestions | 13:57.24 |
| kens | Robin_Watts : mail from Scott, add 2 more | 13:57.50 |
| paulgardiner | robin: and we create one more when we alter anything. I forget how the numbering works after that. | 13:58.53 |
| kens | Oh good grief, I think I'm being dense. Too many pointers with similar names, I think I've been looking at the wrong one :-( | 14:01.51 |
| Robin_Watts | Sorry, was skyped by Scott. | 14:04.03 |
| | When we call pdf_get_xref_entry it looks through them from 0 upwards looking for the first xref that has a given object in. | 14:04.15 |
| | If we don't find one, it returns a pointer to the 0th one. | 14:04.31 |
| | This implies to me that the 0th one is the newest. | 14:04.42 |
| tor8 | so we add new sections at the head? | 14:04.46 |
| | that would make sense | 14:04.53 |
| Robin_Watts | But pdf_get_populating_xref_entry searches the other way and returns a pointer to the last one. | 14:05.11 |
| | Hence my confusion. | 14:05.17 |
| tor8 | that sounds wrong... :/ | 14:09.01 |
| | and confusing | 14:09.03 |
| Robin_Watts | I just checked; simpsons is booked. | 14:09.25 |
| | Rules could fit us in, in a private room. We'd all need to choose a set menu, and the minimum spend for the room would be 3000UKP. | 14:10.01 |
| | I think we'll pass. | 14:10.05 |
| kens | wow, that's.... expensive..... | 14:11.06 |
| pedro_mac | ouch | 14:11.09 |
| henrys | you guys should come on the boat with us may not be more than Simpsons. | 14:11.10 |
| jogux | a set menu at those prices is just downright cheeky. | 14:11.12 |
| henrys | too touristy perhaps? | 14:12.08 |
| kens | The boat you mean ? | 14:12.16 |
| | I'd be fine with that | 14:12.25 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Got a link for the boat? | 14:12.34 |
| kens | Not done an evening cruise before | 14:12.39 |
| henrys | sabrina is getting it, one minute | 14:13.20 |
| Robin_Watts | I suspect a cruise won't work for Helen and I, as we have to get a train back home before it gets too late. But other people should go if they fancy it. | 14:16.38 |
| | Splitting the group may make it all more manageable :) | 14:16.47 |
| kens | Depends on the time, we will also have to catch a train home and they stop comparatively early | 14:17.10 |
| Robin_Watts | grabs lunch. | 14:17.29 |
| kens | I don't think Melanie would be keen on putting us both up on her floor | 14:17.46 |
| henrys | sorry she wasn't near her computer be a few minutes. | 14:18.32 |
| henrys | hums the gilligan's island song ... " a three hour tour" | 14:19.16 |
| | http://www.getyourguide.com/london-l57/cruise-the-thames-with-a-glass-of-bubbly-canapes-t29923/ | 14:22.31 |
| | oh she didn't get dinner... | 14:23.29 |
| kens | Just canapes it seems | 14:23.37 |
| jogux | was there any plan for food on Wednesday evening btw? Pete & I should get to hotel at 17:30ish. | 14:24.06 |
| kens | GOing by the responses there will be others there, might be best just to do the IRC thing when you arrive | 14:24.36 |
| henrys | get some cheap food, pizza whatever, and get on the cruise. Might be fun... | 14:27.28 |
| | jogux: I get in wednesday morning, I'll check IRC around your arrival time. | 14:29.48 |
| jogux | henrys: cool :) | 14:31.01 |
| henrys | the cruise is inexpensive and it is a meeting day. I think it would be fine for Artifex to pay for it. I'll talk to Miles and handle everything if you guys decide to go. | 14:38.29 |
| kens | It coudl be fun, but I'll need to check and Stella is out till later this afternoon. | 14:39.29 |
| henrys | or I'll pay for it, I owe miles a few bucks ;-) | 14:39.48 |
| kens | Its only a couple of hours so we could always grab a takeaway on our way home | 14:40.02 |
| | You folks have chip 'n' pin credit cards yet ? | 14:40.47 |
| tor8 | jogux: I'm getting in Wednesday evening, probably an hour later than you. plane's scheduled for 16.30 landing but navigating to the hotel might be a while. | 14:40.57 |
| jogux | yeah, absolute best case from landing to arriving at hotel is 45 minutes I think, and that'd be pushnig it :) | 14:42.07 |
| kens | thinks you'll be doing well to get to the Heathrow door in 45 minuts after landing | 14:42.27 |
| jogux | I suspect yukko might object to the 'cheap food, pizza whatever' part of the cruise plan, but it otherwise sounds good to me :) | 14:43.26 |
| henrys | kens: sabrina does yes, and we'll probably just use her card most of the time. Is it difficult to find merchants that don't take cards without? | 14:43.46 |
| kens | henrys, I'm not certain, nobody here uses anything but chip n pin | 14:44.07 |
| jogux | It shouldn't be an issueing swiping cards, most London places will be use to tourists | 14:44.26 |
| kens | I suspect you may find it awkward without, though presumably London retailers will be used to it | 14:44.30 |
| jogux | it can get awkard if you have a chip+pin card and don't know the pin though. | 14:45.07 |
| henrys | jogux: has yukko talked with helen? usually the wives get together and do something during the meeting, I fear Harrods this time shutter. | 14:50.01 |
| | jogux: yeah we never use the pin here and don't even know it yet. | 14:51.10 |
| kens | Probably best to find out the pin, I think if the card is chip n pin they'll expect you to use the terminal | 14:52.36 |
| | Not doing so woudl be suspicious | 14:52.46 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: The ArtiWAGs are planning something on the thursday, I think. Helen will be around during the day on the friday to do stuff too. Sheila will presumably have to leave for the airport at midday though. | 14:54.39 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: see the logs about the cruise. | 14:56.32 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: yeah, see how many people are up for that. | 14:59.38 |
| henrys | everyone except scott will be at the meeting in a 1/2 hour so I'll ask there then tell scott I'm sure he'll be inl. | 15:02.46 |
| rayjj | morning, all | 15:09.57 |
| kens | Morning Ray | 15:10.06 |
| rayjj | reviews the logs... | 15:10.06 |
| jogux | henrys: no. I completely forgot about Helen/Yukko (more than once). I should sort it out. | 15:11.43 |
| | Yukko's only around on Friday (arrives 5pm or so on Thursday) | 15:12.01 |
| kens | I'm sure the ladies will do something Friday also | 15:12.17 |
| henrys | jogux: is she going to dinner thursday? | 15:13.32 |
| rayjj | oh, great. I just saw the itme about chip+PIN based cards. I don't have one. Do I just need to bring a ton of cash? Or do some places take old fashioned cards? | 15:14.15 |
| kens | rayjj if you card isn't chip and pin I'm sure London will be fine with it | 15:14.39 |
| rayjj | realizes that if you all have chip carrds, you probably won't know | 15:14.39 |
| jogux | rayjj: a card without chip will be fine. | 15:14.41 |
| rayjj | jogux: kens: thanks | 15:14.54 |
| jogux | cards with chip the retailers get nervous about if you don't have the pin, as I believe if they swipe them instead the liability for fraud is on the retailer (whereas chip+pin fraud liability is on the card issuer) | 15:15.32 |
| kens | THe 'problem' might be if you had a chip and pin card, but didn't know the pin, because not using the pin is suspicious if your card is enabled that way | 15:15.47 |
| jogux | although it varies a lot. | 15:15.53 |
| rayjj | kens: that makes sense | 15:16.02 |
| | here the debit cards require a PIN, but you can't do the debit at all without the PIN | 15:16.46 |
| kens | That's true here also | 15:17.08 |
| tor8 | kens: chip+pin machines in sweden generally refuse to let you swipe if the card has a chip | 15:18.21 |
| rayjj | but some people have debit cards that also act as credit cards, and when you use them as a credit card, there's no PIN. Seems like it would be nice if you could set it up so that credit actions required the PIN, but they don't allow that | 15:18.28 |
| kens2 | tor8 yeah I'm not surprised | 15:18.45 |
| tor8 | if you try swiping it goes "please insert the chip", and if it can't read the chip it goes "please swipe", goto 10 | 15:19.10 |
| chrisl | I've had a couple of times when the chip was unreadable (but still detected), the shop was able to override, and swipe it - but that was a while ago | 15:20.33 |
| henrys | paulgardiner: tenant? odd. | 15:21.54 |
| paulgardiner | henrys: I made a wild guess at what he meant. Perhaps it was a typo :-) | 15:22.46 |
| henrys | so your pin number and debit number are the same? | 15:24.53 |
| kens2 | debit number ? | 15:25.18 |
| henrys | here you use a pin number with a debit card. | 15:26.37 |
| kens2 | Right, its the same system, but you use a pin number with a credit card instead of a signature | 15:26.55 |
| | But unless you can change the numbers, its unlikely they will be the same for your credit and debit cards (mine aren't) | 15:27.36 |
| henrys | couple minutes until the meeting. | 15:28.20 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: what day are you doing the cruise? | 15:31.30 |
| kens2 | Friday evening | 15:31.39 |
| mvrhel_laptop | is everyone going now? | 15:31.57 |
| kens2 | Firday 5th December | 15:31.58 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: it's in lieue of Robin_Watts dinner | 15:32.03 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : under discussion | 15:32.06 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ah ok | 15:32.13 |
| Robin_Watts | mvrhel_laptop: I don't think Helen and I will be going. | 15:32.33 |
| rayjj | sounds fine with me | 15:32.35 |
| chrisl | I'd probably skip a river cruise - it's not that long since I did one.... | 15:32.58 |
| Robin_Watts | So it sounds like there will be at least 2 groups. | 15:33.14 |
| | Which will make it easier to find bookings :) | 15:33.38 |
| henrys | oh I thought you guys wanted to go. | 15:33.58 |
| kens2 | I'll have to check with Stella in any event. | 15:34.29 |
| tor8 | henrys: have you tried the new kindle voyage? | 15:34.35 |
| henrys | no but I've heard it the death of books if that hasn't happened already. | 15:35.20 |
| tor8 | the 300 dpi screen and sort-of-real page turning buttons make me curious, but amazon won't sell the damn thing internationally :( | 15:35.26 |
| kens2 | Buy one in the US next trip :-) | 15:35.48 |
| tor8 | would it be too much of a bother to ask you to get one (and a nice cover so I don't scratch the screen) to the meeting? | 15:35.50 |
| | kens2: that would be my backup plan if henrys doesn't have time to pick one up :) | 15:36.09 |
| kens2 | :-D | 15:36.17 |
| tor8 | the UK prices for the thing are atrocious | 15:36.18 |
| | $200 vs GBP 200... | 15:36.27 |
| kens2 | :-( | 15:36.27 |
| henrys | tor8: I'll look after the meeting. | 15:36.31 |
| kens2 | Right, $=£ | 15:36.33 |
| Robin_Watts | 169 quid. Ouch. | 15:36.35 |
| tor8 | yeah. ouch. but 300 dpi .... must ... have ... new ... toy | 15:36.52 |
| | henrys: thanks. | 15:36.58 |
| jogux | :) | 15:37.01 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: okay so I'll send out an email advertising the cruise and folks can do that if they want. Either way artifex will pay ... | 15:37.20 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: OK. | 15:37.30 |
| jogux | checks with Yukko who seems to be keeping her options open till she sees what Robin comes up with ;) | 15:37.50 |
| Robin_Watts | jogux: I'll not be booking anything until we know how many people are cruising :) | 15:38.36 |
| jogux | :-) | 15:38.47 |
| chrisl | Robin_Watts: So, instead of a meal, we'll go to Denmark Street and "Artiex will pay....." ;-) | 15:38.59 |
| Robin_Watts | I suspect Zizzis or Nandos at this rate, unless everyone takes the cruise. | 15:39.11 |
| | chrisl: hehe. | 15:39.16 |
| henrys | so the big news, at least for me, is open source SOT will be an agenda topic, though miles is still quite negative about it I've come a long way just getting it on the agenda. | 15:39.39 |
| tor8 | henrys: interesting, and good news long term I reckon, if we can get at least bits of it open source | 15:40.32 |
| henrys | let me spend today updating the agenda, then if everyone can have a look at it during the week and submit additions/changes that would be great. | 15:40.59 |
| kens2 | OK | 15:41.09 |
| henrys | tor8: you picked a bad time thursday and friday are holidays. | 15:41.27 |
| | for the kindle. | 15:41.37 |
| | mvrhel_laptop: I saw your comment about printing page ranges last night? Why not -dFirstPage and -dLastPage | 15:42.23 |
| | ? | 15:42.24 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: well, lets say someone put in a value of 3-5, 7 | 15:42.41 |
| | AR handles that nicely | 15:42.52 |
| | they also will so 3-5, 2 which does a bit of reorder | 15:43.07 |
| kens2 | Also, FirstPage and LastPage only work reliably with teh PDF interpreter | 15:43.11 |
| mvrhel_laptop | kens2: it works with xps | 15:43.32 |
| | xpswrite | 15:43.35 |
| marcosw_ | henrys: if you order it today you'll surely have it on Friday (if not tomorrow), amazon has been quoting me two day delivery and delivering the next day. | 15:43.37 |
| kens2 | You mean the XPS interpreter ? | 15:43.56 |
| mvrhel_laptop | no xpswrite | 15:44.03 |
| henrys | marcosw_: okay is around retail? best buy or something? | 15:44.03 |
| mvrhel_laptop | and pdf interpreter | 15:44.13 |
| | oh that is what you said :) | 15:44.17 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : Hmm, even if the input is say PostScript ? | 15:44.23 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ah | 15:44.27 |
| kens2 | :-) | 15:44.30 |
| mvrhel_laptop | well in that case we convert to pdf first | 15:44.33 |
| | anyway | 15:44.35 |
| kens2 | Yeah, just saying | 15:44.40 |
| henrys | postscript goes to pdf before it is printed right? | 15:44.42 |
| mvrhel_laptop | we do a distiller like AR | 15:44.44 |
| | PS is converted to pdf when opened | 15:45.00 |
| marcosw_ | henrys: I'm confused. thought we are talking about a kindle, don't those come from the internets? | 15:45.04 |
| kens2 | What about receving an actual XPS file ? No converszion and AFAIK FirswtPage does not work with the XPS interpreter | 15:45.16 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ok xps source files are a little different | 15:45.31 |
| | those are opened by mupdf directly | 15:45.40 |
| henrys | marcosw_: I don't know I'm asking. I've bought a kindle in a staples long ago I don't know abut the new product. | 15:45.44 |
| mvrhel_laptop | gs is not involved | 15:45.48 |
| kens2 | Oh, then I guess you can pull the files out | 15:45.48 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: so you want to avoid running the job twice for your example? | 15:46.17 |
| kens2 | So given that its either XPS or PDF, and you are using MuPDF, FirstPage and LastPage are not really relevant | 15:46.25 |
| mvrhel_laptop | so in that case, I have a bit of a different issue. | 15:46.25 |
| henrys | kens2: he has to go back to gs to write xps | 15:46.54 |
| mvrhel_laptop | no. lets assume we have a pdf file | 15:46.55 |
| | we need to convert it to xps | 15:47.02 |
| | but we only want to print pages 3-5, 7 | 15:47.12 |
| | but the document is 100 pages long | 15:47.16 |
| marcosw_ | henrys: they might be available locally, but since there isn't any urgency (i.e. you don't want it NOW), why not just order from amazon? | 15:47.40 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I could do 2 separate print jobs in the queue | 15:47.44 |
| | creating 2 temp xps files | 15:47.54 |
| henrys | marcosw_: because I can walk to best buy. | 15:47.59 |
| mvrhel_laptop | but that seems icky | 15:48.21 |
| kens2 | Should work though | 15:48.29 |
| mvrhel_laptop | yes | 15:48.33 |
| kens2 | We have no support currently for anythign other than a single range of pages in GS | 15:48.51 |
| henrys | doesn't mupdf do page ranges and ouptut pdf? Which in turn would go to gs->xps. | 15:49.16 |
| | ? | 15:49.17 |
| kens2 | I could write some PostScript to do it for you :-) | 15:49.20 |
| Robin_Watts | mupdf does not do output pdf. | 15:49.30 |
| | at least not fully. | 15:49.36 |
| marcosw_ | I can walk to my froon stoop (or are you thinking of the carbon footprint? in which case you might be right). | 15:49.41 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: I thought you could extract pages. | 15:49.46 |
| Robin_Watts | mupdf can take a pdf file and cut it down, yes. | 15:49.52 |
| marcosw_ | at least for you, I need to drive 7 or 8 miles to staples. | 15:49.53 |
| Robin_Watts | but currently it doesn't duplicate pages. | 15:49.59 |
| marcosw_ | otoh, I have an electric car, which is supposed to be much less bad for the environment. | 15:50.12 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ok. in that case, I will create the 2 temp files, and see what I can do on the print side. as far as xps source goes, I am going to try to see if I can indicate via the print ticket mess what I want | 15:50.18 |
| Robin_Watts | <cough> | 15:50.19 |
| rayjj | kens2: we did talk about adding page ranges to GS as a command line option, but it didn't get much traction. It's easy enough to do | 15:50.39 |
| chrisl | kens2: You can give multiple files on the gs command line...... can you give First/LastPage for each input file? | 15:50.57 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : if you are prepared to wait and see where I finally end up with the work I'm doing I could probably deal wiht this, but at the moment, just getting one range to work is enough of a headache | 15:50.57 |
| mvrhel_laptop | the big item I would like to see in mupdf is the ability to bring in page(s) from other documents | 15:50.58 |
| kens2 | chrisl no | 15:51.14 |
| rayjj | marcosw: unless you consider the impact of the battery manufacture on the environment | 15:51.16 |
| Robin_Watts | mvrhel_laptop: Merging PDF files? Yes, I'd like to see that too. | 15:51.21 |
| kens2 | Though you could send PostScript in between | 15:51.31 |
| mvrhel_laptop | oh then it is agreed ;) | 15:51.34 |
| | kens2: what is it that you are working on that will effect the ability to specify pages? | 15:52.17 |
| henrys | marcosw_: no I wasn't thinking about carbon, I prefer to go to a store, fool with something buy it, have it now.... that kind of thing. | 15:52.21 |
| | marcosw_: once amazon has that drone service I might switch. | 15:52.46 |
| kens2 | mvrhel_laptop : The FirstPage and LastPage as stands don't work very well. It doesn't work at all with PS input, and with the PCL interpreter it ends up writing all the e;ided content to the first/last page | 15:53.03 |
| rayjj | chrisl: kens2: actually, this _does_ work: gswin32c -dLastPage=1 examples/annots.pdf -dFirstPage=3 -dLastPage=3 examples/annots.pdf | 15:53.07 |
| kens2 | Hmm, I'msurprised that works | 15:53.21 |
| chrisl | Well, that's one answer..... | 15:53.26 |
| rayjj | not as efficient for large PDF's since we open it multiple times | 15:53.39 |
| chrisl | I thought it might, rayjj beat me to try it | 15:53.53 |
| henrys | so the plan is to have Robin_Watts work on the MuPDF xref problem after the 64 bit port. Is paulgardiner good with that? | 15:54.07 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Not quite. | 15:54.18 |
| rayjj | I much prefer the PS: n m dopsdpages x y dopdfpages u v dopdfpages | 15:54.19 |
| Robin_Watts | The plan is for me to work on the xref problem now, putting the 64bit stuff on hold. | 15:54.29 |
| | cos the xref problem is (hopefully) simple, and the 64bit stuff might drag on. | 15:54.50 |
| paulgardiner | I'm okay with it in any case | 15:55.03 |
| henrys | kens2: btw don't you have a big speed up for first and last page coming up. | 15:55.11 |
| paulgardiner | I'm maybe getting somewhere with one of the MDMs | 15:55.21 |
| kens2 | henrys, maybe. | 15:55.32 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: yeah but 64 bit has a hard deadline. | 15:55.35 |
| kens2 | Not for interpreteing, but for rendering, yes | 15:55.42 |
| Robin_Watts | xref stuff has customer hassling me via skype :) | 15:55.50 |
| rayjj | we define the element (forcibly) in systemdict anytime we see a -d (or -s) *but* options that are implemented in gs_init with PS code only get run once so many options aren't "dynamic" | 15:55.58 |
| Robin_Watts | xref stuff should take a day or 2. | 15:56.17 |
| | if it is going to take much longer, we'll push back. | 15:56.28 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: fair enough. | 15:56.35 |
| jogux | henry: I'm not hugely worried about 64bit | 15:57.01 |
| rayjj | henrys: I think the speed up id only for non-PDF files (streamed content like PS or PCL) | 15:57.01 |
| kens2 | That too yes | 15:57.17 |
| henrys | rayjj: yeah good point | 15:57.18 |
| rayjj | henrys: for PDF input the First/Last is implemented directly | 15:57.21 |
| | in the interpreter | 15:57.36 |
| jogux | oh, have we talked about 64bit mupdf on iOS? | 15:58.18 |
| chrisl | Allowing a list of individual pages from a PDF would be pretty easy to do | 15:58.33 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: non contiguous page ranges are not the norm. | 15:58.41 |
| kens2 | chrisl I'd rather not extend the existing code right now. | 15:58.52 |
| | If I cna get the general case working reliably I'd prefer to enhance that | 15:59.07 |
| chrisl | kens2: fair enough | 15:59.09 |
| mvrhel_laptop | no they are not the norm for sure. | 15:59.14 |
| henrys | jogux: no tor8 are there issues with that? | 15:59.23 |
| | Robin_Watts: I do wonder again if fred should grab the code now and just poke at 64 bit stuff. He has to start with something. | 16:00.17 |
| Robin_Watts | My current problem is in the build system. | 16:00.40 |
| jogux | henrys: both Robin & I are in the middle of changes. probably best to avoid that :-) | 16:00.43 |
| tor8 | henrys: jogux: what is this about 64-bit? | 16:00.59 |
| jogux | I should test Robin's current changes sometimes. | 16:01.01 |
| Robin_Watts | Getting it to recognise 64bit openssl for the host, and the 32bit for the tools. | 16:01.13 |
| jogux | tor8: from February, iOS apps *MUST* have a 64 bit slice to be submitted to appstore. | 16:01.18 |
| tor8 | jogux: ugh. well, the core supports 64-bit no problem. not sure about the iOS framework stuff though. and building is going to be a bitch as usual on iOS. | 16:02.01 |
| jogux | robin: build 32bit to get tools, do 64bit build with -notools ? | 16:02.07 |
| henrys | I would like to put on the agenda moving comms over to IRC and not worrying about spies. But if you guys strongly prefer skyp I will not add it to the meeting agenda. Please let me know. | 16:02.09 |
| tor8 | the only problem I see is the duplication of embedded binary data chunks | 16:02.27 |
| Robin_Watts | jogux: That's not nice. | 16:02.32 |
| tor8 | unless the iOS app store is smart enough to only download the slice it wants | 16:02.39 |
| jogux | robin: agreed. | 16:02.49 |
| marcosw_ | henrys: sorry did not yet verify that moving from Gla to Fre is quick and relatively easy, will do that today. | 16:03.01 |
| jogux | tor8: it's not entirely clear. you'd kind of hope so. | 16:03.03 |
| | tor8: I'm not sure there's another choice (other than dumping them in a file & mmaping or whatever) | 16:03.30 |
| Robin_Watts | jogux: Possibly we need to make the x64 option target/host specific. I'll worry about that when I get back to SOT. | 16:03.37 |
| tor8 | jogux: OTOH it might be time to investigate not embedding the fonts and using the system font callback hooks for ios and android where we have known resource locations | 16:03.44 |
| paulgardiner | I would not mourn the loss of skype | 16:04.03 |
| henrys | already the 1/2 hour - kens2 I saw a request for indexing for fast text search in pdf -> pdf workflow, is that a dreadful thing for us to attemp? | 16:04.14 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Could fred start looking at 64bit ios mupdf? | 16:04.22 |
| kens2 | henrys, no idea what you mean there | 16:04.30 |
| | Indexing what, how, and storing it where ? | 16:04.44 |
| henrys | I would like fred to start with mupdf also, miles would prefer sot | 16:04.52 |
| Robin_Watts | henrys: Well, if he doesn't do it, one of us will need to take time off SOT to do it (or Tor8 will have to take time off epub) | 16:05.30 |
| henrys | kens2: it's an acrobat feature don't know anything about it. | 16:05.40 |
| Robin_Watts | and it can't be me, cos I don't do ios. | 16:05.43 |
| kens2 | henrys me neither, got any documentation on it ? | 16:05.52 |
| henrys | Robin_Watts: presumably it would paulgardiner next break from sot. | 16:06.15 |
| chrisl | henrys: an "acrobat feature" or a "distiller feature"? | 16:07.05 |
| kens2 | chrisl seems to be an Acrobat feature | 16:07.20 |
| henrys | it's called an embedded index, so I assume it is in the PDF. | 16:07.24 |
| kens2 | Presumably stores the text in a file outside the PDF though I have yet to check | 16:07.35 |
| henrys | then embedded would not be a good name for it ;-) | 16:07.57 |
| kens2 | http://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/creating-pdf-indexes.html | 16:08.01 |
| henrys | http://blogs.adobe.com/acrolaw/category/search-and-index/ | 16:08.18 |
| chrisl | http://blogs.adobe.com/acrolaw/2014/07/speed-up-pdf-search-with-an-embedded-index/ | 16:08.28 |
| henrys | anyway have a look at it. | 16:08.38 |
| | let's close this meeting, anybody have something to add? | 16:08.54 |
| chrisl | That looks to me like Acrobat is embedding custom metadata, which I bet is not documented anywhere | 16:09.12 |
| kens2 | Agreed chrisl | 16:09.20 |
| | But I will look at it | 16:09.28 |
| jogux | if the mupdf core is 64bit clean, it shouldn't be too bad I guess. fixing a bunch of warnings in the iOS code probably, plus build system frigging to generate a core library with two slices. | 16:09.56 |
| marcosw_ | henrys: btw, I was mistaking, ordering a Kindle Voyage from Amazon isn't an option, they are out of stock. | 16:12.44 |
| rayjj | henrys: indexing is a viewer feature. ghostview does it (gets the entire text output on the first search, then just searches the text it saved) It may be "smart", but still it's a viewer feature nothing for us to do AIUI (except maybe in gsview) | 16:14.37 |
| marcosw_ | btw, just to stear the conversation back from boring stuff to things to do in London: http://www.londontown.com/LondonEvents/GreatChristmasPuddingRace/42cb2/ | 16:15.15 |
| kens2 | rayjj I'm assuming Henry means we should (optionally) build and embed the index | 16:15.21 |
| henrys | right it's not viewer related per se. You can input a pdf and output a new pdf that will allow the user to look up words quickly. That can be terribly slow in some documents. | 16:17.11 |
| tor8 | henrys: marcosw: oh. that's disappointing. but if henrys could check the best buy (just don't spend a lot of time chasing one down, if they're hard to get I'll just be patient) | 16:18.55 |
| henrys | tor8: will do | 16:19.06 |
| tor8 | I like the screen on my paper white but the touch-only to flip pages drives me nuts, and I miss the frontlight on my older kindle | 16:19.40 |
| marcosw_ | tor8: best buy is out of stock in my area | 16:20.43 |
| henrys | marcosw_, tor8 : looks like a pretty hot product. | 16:24.05 |
| marcosw_ | newegg.com is having a 50% off sale on Skype credit (it's digitally delivered, so may even be orderable from outside the US). Skype credit never expires (it becomes dormant after 6 months of inactivity but you just have to log into the skype.com and undormantize (?) it). | 16:25.37 |
| rayjj | marcosw: so money for half price. I like it. Thanks (I have a Skype in, so I spend $8/mo for it) | 16:36.48 |
| kens2 | Well an Indexed PDF file contains an additional dictioanry with 4 keys, IneexFile, Index1File, ModID and PDXFile. The IndexFile and Index1File are binary blobs, none of these are documented in the PDF reference. I also can't immediately find any references online. It looks to me like this is a private feature specific to Acrobt, implementing it will require a load of research and is not likely to be very reliable, at least initially. | 16:36.54 |
| rayjj | kens2: it must be pretty stable, however, since the older Acrobats can use the index (I have 9) | 16:38.13 |
| kens2 | rayjj yes, I agree, but it seems not to be documented anywhere, so figuring it out could be challenging | 16:38.35 |
| rayjj | kens2: but, yeah, finding out what's in the blobs could be hard. I suppose we could ask Adobe. Also can any other open source PDF reader handle the index ? | 16:39.20 |
| kens2 | I'm having trouble running down any info on it at all, so I'm guessing not | 16:39.56 |
| chrisl | kens2: the only thing I've found is this post: http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/Re-Creation-of-an-Embedded-PDF-Search-Index-td4022315.html | 16:46.35 |
| kens2 | LOL first thing it says is 'Only Adobe products can do this' :-) | 16:47.07 |
| chrisl | Exactly...... | 16:47.18 |
| kens2 | Pretty much waht I'd deduced to be honest | 16:47.27 |
| chrisl | As far as I can tell, no open source PDF viewers use or create the index blobs | 16:48.02 |
| kens2 | We might be able to reverse engineer it, but it seems like a load of pain for no great gain | 16:48.09 |
| kens2 | goes back to applying the precision adjustment tool to Ghostscript | 16:49.11 |
| chrisl | I've also found a couple of posts saying Adobe's searching is very occasionally *slower* with an embedded index | 16:49.21 |
| kens2 | ROFL | 16:49.28 |
| henrys | kens2, chrisl sounds like it's not worth an agenda item, thanks for having a look. | 16:50.19 |
| kens2 | NP | 16:50.25 |
| jogux | does anyone want anything brought down from Scotland? Can't really think what though, unless you want a Celtic or Rangers shirt or something :) | 17:02.53 |
| kens2 | Haggis for Henry :-) | 17:03.06 |
| henrys | savages ... | 17:03.27 |
| pedro_mac | thereâs probably more haggis/shortbread/ttartan in London than there is here ;) | 17:03.31 |
| kens2 | There's no blood in Haggis Henry :-) | 17:03.51 |
| | OK I have to run off, got an old school friend visiting. Night all | 17:05.25 |
| henrys | bye kens2 | 17:05.44 |
| | appointment bbiaw | 17:23.41 |
| mvrhel_laptop | I have concluded that someone at MS was smoking crack when they kludged together the old windows print forms dialog and the newer xps stuff. if you want to access the unique print dialog for a particular device you use the older style interface. the types and enumerations of paper sizes is different than what you want to specify on the print ticket when doing xps printing. I verified this... | 19:53.37 |
| | ...with my contact in the printing group at MS (at least the part about the differences not about the crack) | 19:53.39 |
| | it should not be this difficult as they have made it | 19:54.23 |
| | bbiaw | 20:10.41 |
| tor8 | Robin_Watts: ping | 21:47.34 |
| | I got bitten by a long standing bug; fz_keep_buffer reallocates memory | 21:47.56 |
| | which broke in fz_new_image_from_buffer | 21:48.16 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: I sent them mail, you'd think they would say something on the web page. | 23:48.59 |
| mvrhel_laptop | henrys: ok thanks. let me know what you hear | 23:49.12 |
| | I was worried if it was a booze cruise it might not be ok for kids ;) | 23:49.30 |
| henrys | mvrhel_laptop: if you and scott go it will be a booze cruise, he'll get you going. | 23:50.48 |
| mvrhel_laptop | ha. I don't need that | 23:50.59 |
| Robin_Watts | scott has said he isn't cruising. | 23:57.54 |
| | Forward 1 day (to 2014/11/26)>>> | |
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