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 <<<Back 1 day (to 2015/05/05)20150506 
norbertj hi guys, just for the logs: I indeed have modified the ghostpdl build to be multi-pdl.. Just took the ls-build make + some stuff from xps-build. So I now have an ghostpdl.exe/icon on my desktop with default -sDEVICE=display on which I can drop any file (pcl, pxl, xps ps, pdf). If you want I can send you the git-diff for this.06:14.37 
chrisl norbertj: thanks for the confirmation. The problem is that the current l-s build is not what we'd call "production reliable" for Postscript and PDF. So we're (gradually moving towards) rejigging builds and APIs to make l-s more reliable and more flexible.07:03.58 
Robin_Watts chrisl: Interested in: ?10:31.26 
chrisl Robin_Watts: Been thinking about it - when/where were you considering?10:33.10 
Robin_Watts chrisl: Well, by choice it would have been the albert hall, or brum, but the albert hall looks like 230 quid a ticket.10:34.26 
  The O2 is possible, but it's a real pain in the ass to get to.10:34.44 
chrisl The problem with brum is that I have a tournament on the Sunday.....10:35.15 
Robin_Watts Ah.10:35.30 
  I haven't checked with the boss either, so I'm not sure what dates I'm available for.10:35.45 
chrisl If we did Birmingham, would you drive (from your place, obviously)?10:36.29 
Robin_Watts chrisl: Probably, yes.10:37.45 
chrisl If I could drive to your place, leave my car there, and share your car to brum and back, I could then head home that night. That would leave me shattered, but able to play on the Sunday10:39.19 
Robin_Watts ok, I'm free on 22nd and 23rd.10:39.25 
  Sounds like the O2 might be easier for you though.10:39.41 
chrisl Possibly, not sure.....10:40.35 
  It would depend on what time the concert would finish10:41.30 
Robin_Watts The albert hall says: 19:30, and then it says: support at 7:30, main artist at 8:40. Show end 10:4010:43.26 
norbusan Hi everyone, I am back with some questions about CJK fonts and CID fonts. Ok to ask??10:43.52 
Robin_Watts Assuming it's the same timings at the O2, that's a 6pm start, so show over by 9:10 ?10:43.57 
  norbusan: On irc, always ask your question, don't ask to ask :)10:44.30 
  Otherwise you'll be waiting for ages for a reply, what with timezones etc. Do be prepared to hang around for answers though.10:44.55 
norbusan Ok: We have set up all kind of CID fonts in OTF (OTTO) format and TTF format to work with CJK languages.10:45.01 
chrisl Robin_Watts: I'd be surprised if the show finished by just after 9 - could be wrong, though. TBH, I'd be okay with either venue10:45.16 
norbusan For Japanese (and eventuelly trad. Chinese) we would like to get vertical typesetting working.10:45.19 
  Now, it seems that for Japanese, when using OTF CID fonts the vertical typesetting does not work at all, while for TTF CID fonts it does work without problems.10:45.55 
Robin_Watts chrisl: Well, brum would be considerably easier for me.10:45.56 
norbusan The example we use is the in the ghostscript distribution example directory.10:46.15 
  I have tested that with current git checkout (from 2 weeks or so ago).10:46.42 
  Anything known about this?10:46.50 
chrisl norbusan: it's almost certainly because they way we load the OTF fonts means they don't include the vertical metrics, whilst the TTF fonts do10:47.38 
  Robin_Watts: I'm okay with brum10:47.55 
norbusan Ahh, the thing about not loading the full font, thus not seeing all tables, thus also not being able to do auto-composition, right?10:48.17 
chrisl Hmm, sort of, yes10:48.45 
norbusan That also means that this is a long term project - not something one can fix from our side with some trickery.10:49.22 
chrisl You could look at adding (IIRC) a Metrics2 dictionary to the font in Postscript, but you'd still have the problem of getting the correct metrics to include10:50.32 
norbusan Ok. Thanks for the info. I just wanted to confirm.10:51.37 
  In case there is anything *we* (Japanese side - although I am not Japanese ;-) can do. please let me know.10:51.37 
chrisl norbusan: have you checked when you load the fonts for vertical writing that the font is actually being loaded as a vertical font?10:52.20 
norbusan How would one check this?10:52.38 
chrisl The font dictionary should contain a WMode key, and the value should be '1'10:53.30 
norbusan ok ... trying to test this ...10:54.53 
chrisl note that WMode may be ignored if there aren't vertical metrics available...10:55.07 
norbusan If you can give me a small code piece to check for that I would be happy ...10:55.50 
chrisl To check for what?10:56.09 
  The WMode?10:56.22 
norbusan What is the name of the font dictionary?10:57.29 
chrisl Erm, I don't understand the question....10:58.25 
norbusan Ok, how can I check for the content of the dictionary of the font? I know how to print all keys/vals of a dictionary, but don't know how to apply this to the used font.10:59.01 
  got it10:59.24 
  There is \WMode 110:59.34 
  with forward slash10:59.37 
chrisl Right, so if you're not getting vertical writing, then it must be because there are not vertical metrics :-(11:00.04 
norbusan \FontMatrix [1.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 0.0 0.0]11:00.37 
  \OrigFont -dict-11:00.37 
  \PrefEnc null11:00.37 
  \FontInfo -dict-11:00.37 
  \FMapType 911:00.37 
  \FDepVector [-dict-]11:00.38 
  \CMap -dict-11:00.38 
  \Encoding [0]11:00.39 
  \PathLoad (/home/norbert/gs/share/ghostscript/9.18/Resource/Font/Ryumin-Light-V)11:00.39 
  \FontName (Ryumin-Light-V)11:00.40 
  \FID -fontID-11:00.40 
  \WMode 111:00.41 
  \FontType 011:00.41 
chrisl OKay, try this: 
  oops, there's a mistake in that....11:04.44 
norbusan Didn't do it on currentfont but /Ryumin-Light-V findfont ... then I got 
chrisl Yes, so no vertical metrics, hence no vertical writing11:08.59 
norbusan ok.11:09.09 
chrisl TBH, I'm not even sure that loading the OTF "properly" would fix that - Postscript metrics aren't the same as TTF metrics, so the tables might not be present, or might not be relevant11:10.09 
norbusan Hmm, but it works for TTF metrics, and Ghostscript is a PostScript interpreter, ... so I would expect the other way round.11:11.07 
chrisl But the *Postcript* metrics are not available in the *Postscript* font.11:11.55 
norbusan Ah naruhodo ... (indeed...)11:12.22 
chrisl We handle TTF in a "special" way - as we have to, since TTF isn't directly supported in Postscript (as mentioned before)11:13.13 
norbusan I trust you completely in all these matters. I just try to get the most out for the CJK users for now, and see what is working and what is not supported for now. 11:13.57 
  It is already fine if we *know* it, because I can document it and warn.11:14.08 
chrisl So what we have here (as far as Ghostscript's font handling is concerned) is a CFF font without vertical metrics11:14.26 
  norbusan: the problem is that you are using substitutes for Postscript fonts - this stuff all works correctly if you use real Postscript CIDFonts11:15.27 
norbusan stupid question: how do you find the horizontal metrices in case they are burried somewhere in the otf file? I guess there is no pre-defined *order* how the tables are arranged in the otf file. So it might happen that the horizontal metrices are also far down? No?11:15.40 
  chrisl: Might be, but what Japanese companies *ship* are these .otf fonts with embedded PostScript. There is no way for *us* around this.11:16.20 
  Should I contact Ken Lunde to kick the Japanese manufacturer?11:16.44 
chrisl If they are shipping OTF fonts for use with a Postscript interpreter, they are doing the wrong thing11:17.22 
  As to your other question: The default horizontal metrics are implicit in the charstrings11:17.44 
norbusan I guess they are not shipping the fonts for postscript interpreters, but for applicatins like Adobe InDesign etc.11:17.50 
  And they can work properly as far as I remember (never use any of these products, always TeX)11:18.23 
chrisl Products like Indesign often position glyphs individually rather than rely on the internal metrics of the fonts11:19.00 
norbusan Yes, probably. I am not sure either, but guess that dvipdfmx does take the vertical metrics into account, though.11:20.05 
chrisl norbusan: and I'm not saying that it would be impossible for GS to handle it. But there is no spec for how a Postscript interpreter reads TTF or OTF fonts, or how it should use the results to substitute for a different font type, so......11:21.33 
norbusan Indeed. Don't get me wrong - it is great how much is actually supported, and we are grateful for that and all your work!!!11:23.02 
chrisl Our OTF support is limited, and when I get time, I plan to improve it - but time is rather short just at the moment11:24.33 
norbusan Fully understood!11:24.48 
  Thanks again!11:25.16 
chrisl NP. sorry the news wasn't better (again!)11:25.31 
norbusan No prob at all! Have a nice day, I am already at my evening whiskey (Japanese one, quite good!).11:33.42 
  Thanks again.11:33.51 
tor8 Robin_Watts: argh! turns out whitespace *is* significant in CSS :/13:12.47 
  had to rejig big chunks of the css parser to deal with that hairy issue13:13.01 
Robin_Watts tor8: really? got an example ?13:13.14 
tor8 " {}" is *not* the same as ".foo .bar {}"13:13.15 
Robin_Watts oh, right, yes.13:13.24 
tor8 first is parsed as *, the second as *.foo *.bar13:13.28 
  typical w3c crap :)13:13.47 
  patch on tor/master for review, but ideally sebras should rerun his batch of test files with this commit13:14.03 
  sebras: you around?13:14.08 
  he had assembled a big pile of (fairly garbage) epub files that we bashed our way through yesterday13:14.27 
Robin_Watts tor8: will look after lunch.13:16.32 
kens More clueless Indians....13:53.57 
Robin_Watts kens: They absolutely should be getting a support contract.13:57.56 
kens believe so as well, which is why I didn't really answer any of their questions13:58.14 
  I must stop pressing CTRL_I in Miranda when I mean shift-I13:58.35 
henrys kens: that ati customer isn't using a valid email for miles needs to be miles.jones14:08.33 
chrisl henrys: the shorter address *used* to work....14:09.25 
henrys chrisl: I don't see an alias in gmail admin14:09.59 
  chrisl: long time ago it was just miles14:10.25 
chrisl henrys: I did say "used to...."14:11.19 
henrys and I made my usual mistake of saying a name on IRC but I don't think we'll worry about this one.14:12.23 
chrisl I'll not offer to edit the logs - I always seem to break it.....14:13.41 
henrys 2 or 3 times a year we set up the artifex booth at a public show with all the customer names boldly on display so I'm not sure this policy makes a lot of sense. Talking about a customers specific problem would be inappropriate14:18.20 
chrisl henrys: I thought a few (maybe previous) customer names were classified - hence easier to just avoid mentioning any than try to remember specific ones to avoid14:20.21 
kens henrys, that would explai why Miles didn't get the email :-)14:22.45 
henrys chrisl: right that's true but it's been years since we've had a customer with that status...14:22.47 
chrisl 532?14:23.06 
henrys kens: right I was going to say forward it on or I will...14:23.06 
kens Well, I answered the questoin, and they seemed happy. Its probably better if they contact support for support queries anyway :-)14:23.39 
henrys chrisl: pretty sure we've got a logo for them at the booth.14:23.47 
chrisl I wasn't sure....14:24.23 
henrys maybe I should create an alias for miles at artifex dot com who knows how much business is going in the bit bucket due to that.14:28.01 
kens I'd have expected they'd get a bounce14:28.22 
chrisl kens: gmail seems adept at confounding expectations.......14:28.52 
kens Yeah, silently bouncing stuff back to gs-devel...14:29.14 
chrisl It's possible that it dropped into the admin mailbox14:29.58 
henrys I sent a test but didn't get a bounce, we'll see if he gets it but I don't see how he would unless I'm missing something in the bowels of gmail admin.14:34.44 
kens Did someone add a new test file 'Bug694293.pdf' to the tests run by the cluster ?15:14.53 
  Actually I guess not. Looks like its always been broken, its just slightly differently broken in my new code.15:16.07 
ManDay There is a pdf which I parse with Ghostscript to modify the cropbox and before the conversion it is 8.2 megabyte, afterwards its 11 megabytes. I'd rather have it decrease it sinze. Does GS permit for any parameter which affects the size? I don't care about the few pictures in the document at all, they can all disappear for all I want16:46.14 
  the text of the pdf would probably be 2 megabytes. and there are only two pictures. it really shouldn't be 8 nor 11 megabytes16:46.53 
Robin_Watts ManDay: You're breaking the PDFs down into graphical operators, and then reassembling them into completely new PDFs.16:51.11 
  A change in size is not surprising.16:51.19 
  Honestly, if all you want to do is to change the cropbox, then you're using the wrong tool.16:52.38 
ManDay Robin_Watts: Hrm.17:00.45 
  Robin_Watts: yet, I think 9 of those 12 megs go into one graphic - let me upload the particular page17:01.26 
Robin_Watts It's like moving a car from one garage to a bigger one by disassembling the car and reassembling it in a different place.17:01.39 
ManDay the graphic, as it appears, is a plot and it's a vectorgraphic, with millions of components17:01.48 
  quite awful.17:01.53 
  have a look:17:01.55 
Robin_Watts I have other stuff to do, sorry.17:02.40 
ManDay Robin_Watts: If you can suggest a different tool... ?17:02.45 
Robin_Watts i'd write something using mupdf.17:02.58 
henrys ManDay: 
Robin_Watts tor8: I forgot those reviews. The ones I understand are fine. The ones I don't entirely understand seem plausible.17:24.29 
dyfrgi I've been having trouble with a postscript getting cropped by ps2pdf. It has pages of variable size and the large ones wind up only showing the lower left part. They're rendered correctly by gv, though. I'm not sure where to dig to try to fix it.17:37.10 
  I pretty much always have this problem with files generated by dot -Tps2. I'm not sure if it's just those files or if it's a general pdfwrite issue, though.17:37.49 
ManDay why does Robin_Watts say "all I want to do", though? I was actually told that changing the cropbox is more than Ghostscript should do with PDF - since PDF is only to be reprdouced as intended!17:52.25 
  henrys: thanks I'll have a look at that17:53.41 
Robin_Watts dyfrgi: ps2pdf calls gs, and feeds in the postscript.17:55.16 
ManDay henrys: I think podofo will not have a tool to set the cropbox on a per-page basis17:55.27 
Robin_Watts gs converts the page marking operations into a pdf file using the current page size for each page.17:56.08 
  What you need to do is to tell gs the size of the pages you want to use.17:57.15 
  That may be tricky to do using ps2pdf.17:57.32 
  You might do better calling gs directly.17:57.40 
  but even then having the page sizes change for each page will be troublesome.17:57.55 
dyfrgi Robin_Watts: Why would it come out wrong with pdfwrite and work fine in gv though?18:05.32 
  Before each beginpage, there's a %%PageBoundingBox comment and also a /PageSize pdfmark18:10.31 
  Man the page size is represented in like 4 ways18:11.26 
  %%PageBoundingBox, /PageSize, boxprim clip, and /CropyBox pdfmark18:11.51 
  I guess some of those set the size of page to render to and some set how to clip things within that page, and it's represented twice since one is for PS and the other is for PDF distillers (e.g. Adobe, pdfwrite)18:12.38 
  so perhaps just the pdfmark parts are messed up in some way and that's why gv works while ps2pdf does not.18:12.58 
Robin_Watts dyfrgi: The %%PageBoundingBox things are comments. GV may pick them up.18:19.58 
  The guy who would know is kens, and he's gone for the day.18:20.14 
  Come back in about 16 hours? :)18:20.21 
dyfrgi I can probably do 19 hours, think that'd work?18:21.45 
Robin_Watts dyfrgi: yeah. he's here from 9-5 UK time, generally.18:22.00 
dyfrgi Cool, thanks. I'll ask tomorrow morning then.18:22.21 
Robin_Watts dyfrgi: We have a new gsview coming out. It would be good to get that tested with your file.18:23.11 
dyfrgi Sure, I can test that, or provide a file.18:24.20 
Robin_Watts has downloads for the beta.18:24.37 
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