| | <<<Back 1 day (to 2015/08/09) | 20150810 |
| sebras | kens: mornings kens. | 05:32.37 |
| | marcosw: I was unsure whether you would receive my mail. I thought that ghostscript.com and artifex.com were both served by the same amazon vps, but later I discovered that this is not the case. | 05:37.36 |
| RobinFone | morning all. | 06:14.53 |
| | i have massive problems getting the irclogs here. | 06:15.21 |
| | almost makes me suspect a flaw in the webserver/dns config. | 06:15.58 |
| lilltiger | Is there a way to tell gs to convert strokes to strokepath's, like illustrators "Expand" feature? | 07:28.56 |
| kens | To | 07:29.03 |
| | Not really | 07:29.09 |
| | You could redefine the PostScript operator, but that's pretty much it | 07:29.25 |
| | I'm not sure what it would achieve, except using the fill rule instead of the stroke rule for pixel inclusion | 07:30.39 |
| lilltiger | Is there any handy documentation on how to do that so I could try it, too see the result? | 07:32.24 |
| kens | Its PostScript...... | 07:32.38 |
| | "/stroke {strokepath fill} bind def" | 07:32.57 |
| | Right, that's the dumbcluck from Oracle sent off with a flea in his ear. | 07:35.43 |
| | lilltiger : You'll either need to send that PostScript as a command line with teh -c and -f switches, or add it to the PostScript file you are sending to Ghostscript (at the top!). Be aware that its possible for PostScript files to dig the original definition out of the system dictioanry if they think you are trying to do somethign like this, whch might mean your changes have no effect. | 07:37.01 |
| | If you have an example file I could take a quick hack at it. | 07:37.34 |
| lilltiger | kens: sure, just going to upload it | 07:39.42 |
| kens | OK | 07:39.56 |
| lilltiger | kens:http://www.lilltiger.se/annat/MTG.pdf | 07:42.37 |
| kens | OK give me a minute | 07:42.43 |
| | Oh, you're starting with a PDF | 07:42.54 |
| | That's much more tricky | 07:43.04 |
| | You need to alter teh PDF interpreter, not the PostScript definition | 07:43.19 |
| lilltiger | kens: yes, and EPS files etc, it's for importing into a webtool that uises SVG and the issue is the strokes dosent scale corectly in these tools :/ | 07:43.39 |
| kens | EPS is much easir, PDF not so much | 07:43.50 |
| | These are two different page description languages | 07:44.17 |
| lilltiger | kens: but converting the PDF to PS or EPS first should be the same right? as i have to make the conversation anyway | 07:44.25 |
| kens | There isn't going to be a 'one size fits all' solution | 07:44.27 |
| | OMG do *NOT* do multi step conversions, the likely loss in quality is problematic | 07:44.52 |
| | Why do you have to convert PDF to EPS ? | 07:45.09 |
| lilltiger | kens: not sure I have too, what I do need is "-dNoOutputFonts" and then output it to PDF without strokes, and the inputformat can be of meny different types | 07:47.20 |
| kens | SO you are converting the EPS to PDF ? | 07:47.44 |
| | I'm confused by your workflow, but I must warn you that passing through conversions multiple times will likely lead to problems. | 07:48.22 |
| lilltiger | or PDF to PDF | 07:48.24 |
| kens | Really, don't do that without an *extremely* good reason | 07:48.43 |
| lilltiger | I know that :/ but the users will be "resellers" that just get a logo and have no idea how to convert stuff at all, so I need to make it as good as possible. And if the visual result is not good enought then they will in turn contact thire supplier. | 07:50.39 |
| kens | Oh there's another potential problem with PDF, the stroke and fill colours can be different, at the same time | 07:50.41 |
| lilltiger | And the results right now is quite good, except when scaling | 07:50.55 |
| kens | So if you stroke the path it will use the stroke colour, if you conert to a path and then fill, you mmight get a different colour. | 07:51.21 |
| lilltiger | kens: cant i just convert the stroke part to a path then use the old stroke color for it? | 07:53.15 |
| kens | If you look in ghostpdl/gs/Resource/Init/pdf_ops.ps You will find this : | 07:53.18 |
| | "/S { | 07:53.18 |
| | OFFlevels length 0 eq { | 07:53.18 |
| | setstrokestate .swapcolors /stroke fsexec .swapcolors | 07:53.18 |
| | } { | 07:53.18 |
| | newpath | 07:53.19 |
| | } ifelse | 07:53.19 |
| | } bdef" | 07:53.20 |
| | lilltiger : not in a standard PDF itnerpreter no | 07:53.33 |
| | You might be able to change the /stroke to "strokepath /fill" | 07:54.20 |
| | Well, it seems to work | 07:55.54 |
| | The results seem identical at 72 dpi mind you | 07:56.22 |
| lilltiger | with the last code you posted? | 07:57.06 |
| kens | What OS are you on ? | 07:57.20 |
| lilltiger | the converter runs on linux | 07:57.32 |
| | and calls gs with a system call in php | 07:57.52 |
| kens | chrisl we use the romfs on Linux by default now ? | 07:57.55 |
| chrisl | *We* do, but no distro that I know does | 07:58.32 |
| kens | OK so manually hacking pdf_ops.ps shoudl work ? | 07:58.45 |
| chrisl | It should, yes | 07:58.56 |
| kens | lilltiger : you'll need to find out where GS is installed, then in the Resource/Init subfolder edit the pdf_ops.ps file | 07:59.34 |
| chrisl | What distro is it? | 07:59.48 |
| lilltiger | archlinux | 07:59.56 |
| | /usr/share/ghostscript/9.16/Resource/Init/pdf_ops.ps | 08:00.09 |
| kens | Find the code I put above and alter it to: | 08:00.12 |
| | "/S { | 08:00.12 |
| | OFFlevels length 0 eq { | 08:00.12 |
| | setstrokestate .swapcolors (using strokepath) == flush strokepathh /fill fsexec .swapcolors | 08:00.12 |
| | } { | 08:00.12 |
| | newpath | 08:00.13 |
| | } ifelse | 08:00.13 |
| lilltiger | locate said there | 08:00.14 |
| kens | } bdef" | 08:00.14 |
| | But note that when I run that with your file, it doesn't execute stroke at any point | 08:00.41 |
| | Decompressing the PDF file, its all fill operations and an image | 08:01.31 |
| lilltiger | hmm, strange the borders around the logo should be strokes.. hmm or did i accidently send the one that was expanded already | 08:01.37 |
| kens | THe PDF is produced by Illustrator, and stil contains the Illustrator file within it. | 08:03.17 |
| lilltiger | nope, it was the right file | 08:03.43 |
| kens | Well I see no stroke operations | 08:03.56 |
| | Even in the original; Illustrator file | 08:04.26 |
| lilltiger | Yhee, could it be the clippath that is turned into a path when i make it into a svg | 08:04.52 |
| | so the issue might be bigger then just strokes | 08:05.07 |
| kens | There's a rectangular clip, not sure if there are others | 08:05.38 |
| | clippath is a PostScript operator, I don't thnk there's a PDF equivalent, it simply has clip I bleive. | 08:06.11 |
| lilltiger | Theer are 2 things in the logo that works the wrong way, one around the yellow area and one around the black | 08:06.22 |
| kens | Your yellow area is a rectangle, the black border appeas to be integral to it | 08:07.42 |
| lilltiger | kens: well, hard for me to translate it properly, clipp-group might be the name in illustrator | 08:07.44 |
| kens | No point in givcing me Illustrator terms, I have no idea about it, just the page description languages :-) | 08:08.08 |
| lilltiger | And I know nither :/ hehe | 08:08.32 |
| kens | You have : | 08:08.49 |
| | a yellow rectangle with a black border (not yet sure how ths is constructed) | 08:09.07 |
| | An image (backhoe) on top of it, in black and a 'cog' shape also in black which apperars to be a series of filled shapes | 08:09.43 |
| | a black rectangle | 08:09.52 |
| | On top of that, three letters in whte | 08:10.02 |
| | Two sets of text, one in black and one in yellow | 08:10.11 |
| | OK your yellow rectangel is using the 'B' operator | 08:12.01 |
| lilltiger | yes, the yellow one the border needs to become a path that is filled like if it was a border, and it's the same for the black area with the 3 letters in it | 08:12.07 |
| kens | WHich is a conbined 'fill and then stroke' | 08:12.19 |
| lilltiger | Ok, so there might be alot of different things that makes 'strokes' and it would be very hard to convert all thoes cases to paths with fills? | 08:14.12 |
| kens | So in pdf_ops.ps you also nee to find the definition of the /B operator and apply the same change as for /S | 08:14.17 |
| | There are several ways to stroke in PDF, you would need to cover all of them (eg there's a B* which is an eofill followed by a stroke, rather than a stragith fill) | 08:15.10 |
| | Well, that caused an error in the PDF interpreter..... | 08:17.05 |
| | ah, typo | 08:17.30 |
| | Yes that seemed to work | 08:17.41 |
| | You'd need to do that for S, s, B, b, B* and b* and the list gets longer if you want to deal with text as well | 08:18.52 |
| lilltiger | text do seem to work fine when i use "-dNoOutputFonts" | 08:20.59 |
| kens | Well that'll change the text into a sequence of paths. I must admit I'm not entirely sure what will happen if you use a PDF as inptu when the Text rendering mode is non-standard. | 08:21.58 |
| lilltiger | but I have not testat with text with a stroke right, hmm that might cause issues | 08:22.02 |
| kens | There are 8 different text rendering modes | 08:22.38 |
| | fill, stroke, fill then stroke, neitehr fill nor stroke, fill and add to path for clip, stroke, add to path for clip, fill then stroke then add to path for clip, and aadd to path for clip | 08:23.08 |
| | I haven't tested the 'NoOutputFonts' code with any of these | 08:23.47 |
| lilltiger | Maybe it is just easier to have an instance of Illustrator runing and use it for all the conversations, I will have to do that for .ai files, but wanted to avoid it when using .pdf's and .eps's. | 08:23.53 |
| kens | If you have to do it for anything, you may as well use it for everything. | 08:24.21 |
| lilltiger | well, i think the illustrator way is slower and wouldent scale very well if the userbase grows | 08:25.15 |
| kens | What you're talkign about doing with Ghostscript is kind of hacky, and as likely to break stuff as fix it, I'd have thought. | 08:26.07 |
| | Better to get the input right in the first place...... | 08:26.18 |
| lilltiger | I wish I could demand a certain input from the customers, unfortunally that is not an option :'( | 08:27.18 |
| kens | Sadly, it never is...... | 08:27.28 |
| kens | needs coffee | 08:27.51 |
| lilltiger | right now I use gs to fix the fonts to paths and the colors to rgb, then inscape to turn the pdf to svg, then cairo to enforce the dpi of the svg.. sounds awfull but works very well with all testcases except for this stroke issue. And it does not handle new .ai-files only old ones. | 08:30.14 |
| chrisl | lilltiger: what do you mean "enforce the dpi of svg files"? svg is vector, it doesn't have a "dpi"..... | 08:33.27 |
| | And I suspect the difference with the ai files isn't the age, but whether they were saved with the "pdf compatibility" option | 08:34.07 |
| lilltiger | chrisl: I know, but it's the viewport option in the SVG that needs to be normalized to the same relation to as the other svg's as they get componded. And cairos -d switch does that | 08:36.18 |
| chrisl | FWIW, it sounds like it should all be achievable with Illustrator..... | 08:37.14 |
| lilltiger | chrisl: Not only that, in older .ai formats one could just inject a header and it could be handled as a pdf, but with never that is no longer possible | 08:37.42 |
| | chrisl: yes it can be, all but the -dNoOutputFonts can be dont throught scripts in illustrator | 08:38.34 |
| chrisl | Hmm, I really through illustrator would have a "convert fonts to vectors" function | 08:39.10 |
| lilltiger | chrisl: it does, if it has the font installed | 08:39.22 |
| chrisl | Oh, well that's crap :-( | 08:39.42 |
| lilltiger | chrisl: yhee so I will have to use gs to fix that atleast | 08:40.05 |
| | and I wanted to avoid illustrator fully as much as possible as the server runs linux.. so either ill have to have another server runing the illustrator conversations or run it throught wine | 08:41.01 |
| chrisl | I feel this is also a reasonable time to mention licensing - I would advise reading both the Ghostscript and (especially!) the Illustrator license conditions, because it sounds to me like you might be close to infringing the conditions | 08:41.24 |
| lilltiger | chrisl: fortuanally I wont distribute the results | 08:41.58 |
| chrisl | Nevertheless, it sounds like you are going to be offering a service of some kind | 08:42.38 |
| lilltiger | chrisl: they are used internaly in production, so I know that for illustrator it's fine. But dont know for gs | 08:43.31 |
| chrisl | lilltiger: well, the AGPL license is fairly easy to read | 08:44.37 |
| lilltiger | chrisl: maybe I am missing something, but I find nothing in the AGPL that would hinder the intended use. The intended use is to convert PDF/EPS files to PDF and then convert thoes PDF's to SVG that the user that uploaded that PDF then can use in a webenvironment. | 08:54.16 |
| chrisl | lilltiger: the AGPL has restrictions on use in a SAAS environment - but I suspect you are going to be fine | 08:55.38 |
| lilltiger | chrisl: I suspect that as well | 08:59.18 |
| chrisl | lilltiger: I was more wary of Illustrator - Adobe's licensing is rather more "locked down" than ours | 09:00.31 |
| lilltiger | chrisl: indeed, but I think we are fine there as well as we do not realy distribute the files we generate, they are for internal use and we do have several illustrator licences | 09:18.37 |
| chrisl | lilltiger: cool. I felt it worth mentioning as this is a public (and publicly logged) channel. | 09:21.45 |
| lilltiger | chrisl: I know and i have lookt into it somewhat, but licences are hard to understand, but from what I have understood we should be just fine. | 09:24.36 |
| henrys | kens2: your 0 scale bug in pcl actually discovered a class of problems. HP seems to apply range clamping to several commands that eventually effect the scale value. | 13:58.43 |
| kens2 | Hmm, interesting | 13:58.55 |
| | So they end up at 0, or we shoudl be clamping to something larger,e and aren't ? | 13:59.19 |
| henrys | kens2: very tiny fonts not visible without magnification but they are there. | 14:00.29 |
| | kens2: well visible but not readable | 14:00.44 |
| kens2 | :-D | 14:00.49 |
| | I'm pretty certain it was an actual 0 that was causing the problem, which I *thnk* means we would print nothing | 14:01.39 |
| rayjj | I guess casper is back up | 14:02.18 |
| kens2 | Seems to be OK< marcosw rebooted it | 14:02.27 |
| rayjj | I guess more than one person needs to be able to do that | 14:02.44 |
| henrys | kens2: yes it was 0, the responsible command leaves out the parameter and the parser default the parameter to 0, which is wrong | 14:02.49 |
| kens2 | Oh I see, then I guess I just handed you a pre-opened can of worms, sorry about that | 14:03.11 |
| henrys | kens2: easy changes just have to find all of them. | 14:03.40 |
| kens2 | Well, at least if the changes are easy its not too onerous | 14:04.02 |
| | I wonder if this means a lot of cluster diffs though ? | 14:04.18 |
| henrys | kens2: maybe | 14:05.09 |
| kens2 | :-( Again.... | 14:05.18 |
| henrys | rayjj: it was up last night when I checked. | 14:06.16 |
| kens2 | marcosw rebooted it yesterday afternoon | 14:06.38 |
| henrys | kens2: ah that makes sense. | 14:06.58 |
| henrys | wonders if dns changes should be reviewed. It's a big deal and another set of eyes might help | 14:07.29 |
| kens2 | needs a fresh coffee infusion | 14:07.30 |
| | I don't thnk it was hte DNS change | 14:07.41 |
| | Seems like casper just died co-incidentally | 14:07.56 |
| rayjj | henrys: it wasn't the DNS changes, but lack thereof. When peeves changed, I forgot to update network solutions | 14:08.13 |
| henrys | rayjj: oh I thought you had made a mistake and corrected it. | 14:08.59 |
| | rayjj: and the casper problem is coincidence? that seems odd? | 14:09.34 |
| rayjj | once I updated NS for peeves==ns2 then casper and ns1 and ns3 were all able to be found (using peeves), but it was down. Up until then (for the previous week) peeves was being resolved by casper | 14:09.51 |
| | and casper _was_ updated | 14:10.04 |
| | since my static IP's change so infrequently, I had forgotten the one step | 14:10.51 |
| | henrys: who else knows the magic to reboot casper ? | 14:13.49 |
| henrys | I think it's just marcosw | 14:14.29 |
| rayjj | henrys: have I given you the accounts and passwords for network solutions (ghostscript.com and artifex.com) or the godaddy accounts that I set up (gsview.com and jbig2dec.com) ??? | 14:17.07 |
| kens2 | Customer bugs showing a distinct improvement this week. | 14:18.11 |
| sebras | henrys: sounds like you have another item for the meeting yes. :) | 14:23.12 |
| jogux | henrys: I think the casper problem was a coincidence - with casper up DNS worked but would've been slower for the first query 50% of the time. With casper down (and peeves's IP out of date) it didn't work 100% of the time :) | 14:26.46 |
| | my guess is casper kernel paniced or something. it was accepting TCP ssh connections but not sending the intiial banner, which in my experience is generally sympomatic of a kernel panic. | 14:27.30 |
| henrys | rayjj: no | 14:29.52 |
| | rayjj: can you put them on casper | 14:30.03 |
| | jogux: I guess but I can't even remember the last time casper came down. seems odd. | 14:31.42 |
| jogux | nods. the /var/log/kern.log might contain a clue but I don't have permissions to see that :) | 14:32.23 |
| rayjj | henrys: where should I put them ? | 14:33.21 |
| henrys | home directory ? | 14:34.11 |
| rayjj | the /home directory, your /home/henrys dierctory, or my /home/ray directory ? | 14:34.42 |
| henrys | or I can send you a public key and we can use email but I think casper is secure enough don't you? | 14:34.51 |
| rayjj | henrys: if it isn't we're in trouble | 14:35.06 |
| henrys | sorry I meant your home directory | 14:35.15 |
| rayjj | henrys: OK. I just wanted to know so someone could find it | 14:35.37 |
| | and now it'll be searchable in the logs :-) | 14:35.55 |
| | I'll call it domain_registrar_account_info.txt OK? | 14:36.19 |
| henrys | rayjj: sure, I was going to grab it and delete it... if we want to have several people see it we should set it up on the twike | 14:41.13 |
| | s/twike/twiki | 14:41.20 |
| | although the twiki security is questionable | 14:41.41 |
| rayjj | henrys: yeah, I wouldn't suggest the twiki | 14:43.05 |
| henrys | rayjj: we can always encrypt it. | 14:51.59 |
| | I was thinking it would be nice to have a central place with all our accounts. Smart office has added a lot of outside accounts to keep track of. | 14:53.08 |
| kens2 | print and snail mail to Joann ? | 14:55.52 |
| henrys | well the idea is to have all this stuff immediately accessible. Seems like twiki + encryption is the way to go. I'll bring it up at the Tuesday meeting. | 14:58.13 |
| jogux | henrys: we have a file on casper we keep the SO account on. It's as secure as the SO git is (which is more secure than the twiki). | 15:12.54 |
| | of course, the wiki and the above file are hosted on casper, so would've been useless at the weekend :-) | 15:13.29 |
| chrisl | Ah, cool, back online.... | 16:04.58 |
| henrys | RobinFone, is that the nick for tapping into a telephone cable with scuba gear in the middle of the Pacific... | 18:07.16 |
| | ? | 18:07.19 |
| RobinFone | limited wifi. i haveto run to the restaurant for a hit every now and then to stave off the shakes. | 18:10.08 |
| | we start our journey home later today. back to tahiti. | 18:10.56 |
| | then back to lax/lhr tomorrow night | 18:11.18 |
| henrys | ;-) | 18:14.11 |
| rayjj | hmm... somehow the openjpeg junk messages are appearing again on debug builds :-( | 18:58.58 |
| | I thought we got rid of those | 18:59.17 |
| | oh, probably with the new directory structure, my luratech dir isn't in the right place, so I've gone back to using openjpeg | 19:01.05 |
| | Forward 1 day (to 2015/08/11)>>> | |
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