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velix kens: Hey. I was the Inkscape/Cairo PDF reporter.15:16.24 
kens Ah hi velix15:16.35 
velix kens: I'm debugging the problem right now to report it to Inkscape/Cairo.15:16.35 
  It's a regression :(15:16.47 
kens OK I have information that the problem has already been reported to Cairo15:16.50 
velix :D15:16.54 
kens But I don't know exactly when15:16.56 
  Hopefully they will fix it quickly and then everythign will be good again :-)15:17.26 
velix Nevermind, I'll report it to Inkscape, too. Perhaps they did something wrong while "talking to libcairo"?15:17.33 
kens Well its possible, I'm not really in a position to know15:17.53 
  Ordinarily we would try to accomodate the bug (because Acrobat opens it just fine....) but sadly this is a case where our old code simply cannot cope15:18.22 
  We do hope, eventually, to have a new PDF interpreter, and I did try out your file with that, and it worked fine.15:18.51 
chrisl velix: FWIW, it was me that investigated that problem previously (as a favour for someone). I suggested they report it to the Cairo devs, and they said they would. But I can't know for sure if that happened. Either way, adding your voice will encourage it to be fixed, I would hope15:20.10 
kens More voices would be good, I'm sure15:20.26 
chrisl Well, it is *so* clearly wrong15:20.41 
velix chrisl: Oh... I've just installed 20 different Inkscape versions to narrow down the faulty version :D15:20.54 
  na na na nananaa15:21.03 
kens :-O15:21.03 
  velix, thanks for putting in the work on that, I'm sure the Cairo people will appreciate it too, and its great to be able to show its a regression15:21.59 
chrisl velix: Well, I only poked inside the PDF and explained what was wrong, I didn't get involved in debugging Cairo..... It's hard enough getting my head around *our* implementations!15:22.04 
velix kens: Either Cairo or the Inkscape guys used Cairo wrong ;)15:22.37 
kens Well, whoever it was, I'm sure narrowing it down will help them15:22.52 
velix I wonder if PS is also affected?15:22.54 
velix adds this to his tests15:23.08 
chrisl PS doesn't have the same "text context" (BT/ET) stuff15:23.38 
velix I again wonder, how tolerant Adobe Reader15:23.47 
kens nods to chrisl15:24.02 
velix I thought Adobe would shout: "noo nooo nooo" when opening a faulty PDF.15:24.09 
kens Acrobat Reader is *annoyingly* tolerant15:24.12 
velix :D15:24.15 
kens It doesn't even give warnings :-(15:24.22 
velix does Acrobat do?15:24.31 
kens So people keep thinking the PDF files they produce are correc,t because Acrobat will open them15:24.42 
velix eww. I am stupid15:24.50 
  kens: It's "Adobe Reader" and "Adobe Acrobat" ;)15:25.06 
kens :-)15:25.13 
chrisl Even Acrobat's built-in PDF checker doesn't flag a hell of a lot of problems :-(15:25.23 
velix I thought Acrobat would complain? I mean, it's a professional tool.15:25.24 
kens I ten d to miss of the company name, I'm going for generic status15:25.28 
  Acrobat Pro doesn't complain any more than Reader does. The file has to be badly broken before you get a (cryptic) message15:25.54 
velix What about Microsoft Office's PDF implementation. Do you like it?15:25.56 
kens Print to PDF ? Its OK15:26.08 
velix No, save as PDF.15:26.12 
  It's different.15:26.20 
kens Yeah same thing, I think MS use the same code under the hood15:26.22 
velix No15:26.25 
chrisl velix: Basically, you cannot trust Reader/Acrobat to judge a "valid" PDF :-(15:26.25 
velix kens: Different files, really.15:26.30 
  Transparency etc.15:26.33 
kens velix you think they use different code ?15:26.35 
velix "Print to PDF" comes from the OS, it's a driver.15:26.39 
  "Save as PDF" is office native.15:26.46 
kens Yes, but that doesn't mean they use different code. It depends on how the interface is written15:27.20 
  Whic, to be fair, I don't know15:27.28 
velix Okay *that* might be. But the output is different.15:27.41 
  When you print to PDF from office, there's always trouble.15:27.48 
kens From the POV of a consumer, both sets of files look similar and seem to be decent enough15:27.49 
velix Can Ghostscript validate X/A ?15:28.25 
kens FWIW Adobe Acrobqat Pro does have a tool for checking PDF files, but its not very good.15:28.28 
  velix Ghostscript cna't validate *anything*15:28.35 
  We absolutely don't care about the flavours of PDF, we just consume them15:28.57 
velix ah okay.15:29.00 
  I thought you're shouting "no no no" when it's out of specs.15:29.10 
chrisl We do *try* to warn if a PDF is invalid, but only according the PDF spec, not the special interest ones15:29.34 
kens When its out of the PDF spec yes, but PDF/A and PDF/X are just subsets of the main PDF spec, we don't check to see if they actually conform to the declared subset15:29.42 
velix ok15:29.51 
kens I haev to admit we aren't totally consistent about reporting out of spec PDF files either. When we started out (years ago) either the file worked or it threw an error. Then we added code to worj-around files that Acrobat would open. It was a while before we started adding warnings too15:32.11 
chrisl That's why I said "try"!15:33.27 
velix Pizza guy just came. oil anywhere :-(15:40.45 
  never again!15:40.48 
kens oil on the pizza ? You aren't Bender are you ?15:41.09 
  (Futurama reference)15:41.58 
velix I am Bender, please insert a disc.15:42.13 
  (or disk)15:42.15 
kens Surely you need beer ?15:42.43 
velix I'm living in a robot apartment. Mine is 23 m² - no joke.15:43.06 
kens That sounds, well, tiny....15:43.19 
velix Because it's cheaper, many restaurants use electric ovens and pans that are painted with oil to make the dough non-sticky. But of course no deep pans, but flat ones (Italien style). Additionally to the oil from the cheap cheese (I hope it's cheese), I'm smelling like a refinery worker now.15:43.54 
  Italia Style*15:44.04 
kens Oh Isee, edible oil15:44.12 
velix yeah ;)15:44.27 
  eatable oil = edible oil?15:44.37 
  Funny English15:44.39 
kens Yes, its a peculiar language15:44.49 
  Mandarin made much more sense to me15:45.07 
velix One sign can make you married.15:45.23 
  One sign can make your dog a meal.15:45.28 
  oops: I don't want to insult anybody, I just make racist jokes.15:46.09 
velix is quiet15:46.19 
  kens: Here in Germany, about nobody knows that there have been new episodes of Futurama.16:04.06 
  kens: Most of them think it ended when the normal series ended.16:04.14 
kens New episodes ? Really ?16:04.19 
velix series 1-4 = fox16:04.57 
  5-7 = comedy central16:05.07 
kens Hmm, not certain which channnel they showed on over here, or indeed which series we got16:05.33 
velix it actually run until late 2013, many guys aren't aware of this.16:06.33 
kens Ah I think in that case we got the later episodes too16:06.46 
velix Man... sooo many Inkscape versions16:07.33 
kens Well it did take them a long time to hit version 1.0 :-)16:07.48 
velix and they jumped over many numbers.16:12.00 
  Affinity is damn nice, but not scritable :(16:12.19 
kens To be honest I wasn't kepping track, but I did notice teh announcement for the release of 1.0 on The Register16:12.27 
velix They should use Chrome's versioning scheme. Then they'll be at 10.1 in 2 monts ;)16:13.00 
kens Time for me to go, have a good evening velix and all16:14.48 
velix 18:16 !!!16:16.10 
  Thanks and good evening :D16:16.14 
  My god... the old versions of Inkscape are WAY less faulty than the new ones.20:25.01 
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