| | <<<Back 1 day (to 2020/09/22) | Fwd 1 day (to 2020/09/24) >>> | 20200923 |
| velix | kens: Hey. I was the Inkscape/Cairo PDF reporter. | 15:16.24 |
| kens | Ah hi velix | 15:16.35 |
| velix | kens: I'm debugging the problem right now to report it to Inkscape/Cairo. | 15:16.35 |
| | It's a regression :( | 15:16.47 |
| kens | OK I have information that the problem has already been reported to Cairo | 15:16.50 |
| velix | :D | 15:16.54 |
| kens | But I don't know exactly when | 15:16.56 |
| | Hopefully they will fix it quickly and then everythign will be good again :-) | 15:17.26 |
| velix | Nevermind, I'll report it to Inkscape, too. Perhaps they did something wrong while "talking to libcairo"? | 15:17.33 |
| kens | Well its possible, I'm not really in a position to know | 15:17.53 |
| | Ordinarily we would try to accomodate the bug (because Acrobat opens it just fine....) but sadly this is a case where our old code simply cannot cope | 15:18.22 |
| | We do hope, eventually, to have a new PDF interpreter, and I did try out your file with that, and it worked fine. | 15:18.51 |
| chrisl | velix: FWIW, it was me that investigated that problem previously (as a favour for someone). I suggested they report it to the Cairo devs, and they said they would. But I can't know for sure if that happened. Either way, adding your voice will encourage it to be fixed, I would hope | 15:20.10 |
| kens | More voices would be good, I'm sure | 15:20.26 |
| chrisl | Well, it is *so* clearly wrong | 15:20.41 |
| velix | chrisl: Oh... I've just installed 20 different Inkscape versions to narrow down the faulty version :D | 15:20.54 |
| | na na na nananaa | 15:21.03 |
| kens | :-O | 15:21.03 |
| | velix, thanks for putting in the work on that, I'm sure the Cairo people will appreciate it too, and its great to be able to show its a regression | 15:21.59 |
| chrisl | velix: Well, I only poked inside the PDF and explained what was wrong, I didn't get involved in debugging Cairo..... It's hard enough getting my head around *our* implementations! | 15:22.04 |
| velix | kens: Either Cairo or the Inkscape guys used Cairo wrong ;) | 15:22.37 |
| kens | Well, whoever it was, I'm sure narrowing it down will help them | 15:22.52 |
| velix | I wonder if PS is also affected? | 15:22.54 |
| velix | adds this to his tests | 15:23.08 |
| chrisl | PS doesn't have the same "text context" (BT/ET) stuff | 15:23.38 |
| velix | I again wonder, how tolerant Adobe Reader | 15:23.47 |
| | is* | 15:23.49 |
| kens | nods to chrisl | 15:24.02 |
| velix | I thought Adobe would shout: "noo nooo nooo" when opening a faulty PDF. | 15:24.09 |
| kens | Acrobat Reader is *annoyingly* tolerant | 15:24.12 |
| velix | :D | 15:24.15 |
| kens | It doesn't even give warnings :-( | 15:24.22 |
| velix | does Acrobat do? | 15:24.31 |
| kens | So people keep thinking the PDF files they produce are correc,t because Acrobat will open them | 15:24.42 |
| velix | eww. I am stupid | 15:24.50 |
| | kens: It's "Adobe Reader" and "Adobe Acrobat" ;) | 15:25.06 |
| kens | :-) | 15:25.13 |
| chrisl | Even Acrobat's built-in PDF checker doesn't flag a hell of a lot of problems :-( | 15:25.23 |
| velix | I thought Acrobat would complain? I mean, it's a professional tool. | 15:25.24 |
| | uh! | 15:25.27 |
| kens | I ten d to miss of the company name, I'm going for generic status | 15:25.28 |
| | Acrobat Pro doesn't complain any more than Reader does. The file has to be badly broken before you get a (cryptic) message | 15:25.54 |
| velix | What about Microsoft Office's PDF implementation. Do you like it? | 15:25.56 |
| | M365 | 15:26.03 |
| kens | Print to PDF ? Its OK | 15:26.08 |
| velix | No, save as PDF. | 15:26.12 |
| | It's different. | 15:26.20 |
| kens | Yeah same thing, I think MS use the same code under the hood | 15:26.22 |
| velix | No | 15:26.25 |
| chrisl | velix: Basically, you cannot trust Reader/Acrobat to judge a "valid" PDF :-( | 15:26.25 |
| velix | kens: Different files, really. | 15:26.30 |
| | Transparency etc. | 15:26.33 |
| kens | velix you think they use different code ? | 15:26.35 |
| velix | "Print to PDF" comes from the OS, it's a driver. | 15:26.39 |
| | "Save as PDF" is office native. | 15:26.46 |
| kens | Yes, but that doesn't mean they use different code. It depends on how the interface is written | 15:27.20 |
| | Whic, to be fair, I don't know | 15:27.28 |
| velix | Okay *that* might be. But the output is different. | 15:27.41 |
| | When you print to PDF from office, there's always trouble. | 15:27.48 |
| kens | From the POV of a consumer, both sets of files look similar and seem to be decent enough | 15:27.49 |
| velix | Can Ghostscript validate X/A ? | 15:28.25 |
| kens | FWIW Adobe Acrobqat Pro does have a tool for checking PDF files, but its not very good. | 15:28.28 |
| | velix Ghostscript cna't validate *anything* | 15:28.35 |
| | We absolutely don't care about the flavours of PDF, we just consume them | 15:28.57 |
| velix | ah okay. | 15:29.00 |
| | I thought you're shouting "no no no" when it's out of specs. | 15:29.10 |
| chrisl | We do *try* to warn if a PDF is invalid, but only according the PDF spec, not the special interest ones | 15:29.34 |
| kens | When its out of the PDF spec yes, but PDF/A and PDF/X are just subsets of the main PDF spec, we don't check to see if they actually conform to the declared subset | 15:29.42 |
| velix | ok | 15:29.51 |
| kens | I haev to admit we aren't totally consistent about reporting out of spec PDF files either. When we started out (years ago) either the file worked or it threw an error. Then we added code to worj-around files that Acrobat would open. It was a while before we started adding warnings too | 15:32.11 |
| chrisl | That's why I said "try"! | 15:33.27 |
| velix | Pizza guy just came. oil anywhere :-( | 15:40.45 |
| | never again! | 15:40.48 |
| kens | oil on the pizza ? You aren't Bender are you ? | 15:41.09 |
| | (Futurama reference) | 15:41.58 |
| velix | I am Bender, please insert a disc. | 15:42.13 |
| | (or disk) | 15:42.15 |
| kens | Surely you need beer ? | 15:42.43 |
| velix | I'm living in a robot apartment. Mine is 23 m² - no joke. | 15:43.06 |
| kens | That sounds, well, tiny.... | 15:43.19 |
| velix | Because it's cheaper, many restaurants use electric ovens and pans that are painted with oil to make the dough non-sticky. But of course no deep pans, but flat ones (Italien style). Additionally to the oil from the cheap cheese (I hope it's cheese), I'm smelling like a refinery worker now. | 15:43.54 |
| | Italia Style* | 15:44.04 |
| kens | Oh Isee, edible oil | 15:44.12 |
| velix | yeah ;) | 15:44.27 |
| | eatable oil = edible oil? | 15:44.37 |
| | Funny English | 15:44.39 |
| kens | Yes, its a peculiar language | 15:44.49 |
| | Mandarin made much more sense to me | 15:45.07 |
| velix | One sign can make you married. | 15:45.23 |
| | One sign can make your dog a meal. | 15:45.28 |
| | oops: I don't want to insult anybody, I just make racist jokes. | 15:46.09 |
| velix | is quiet | 15:46.19 |
| | kens: Here in Germany, about nobody knows that there have been new episodes of Futurama. | 16:04.06 |
| | kens: Most of them think it ended when the normal series ended. | 16:04.14 |
| kens | New episodes ? Really ? | 16:04.19 |
| velix | series 1-4 = fox | 16:04.57 |
| | 5-7 = comedy central | 16:05.07 |
| kens | Hmm, not certain which channnel they showed on over here, or indeed which series we got | 16:05.33 |
| velix | it actually run until late 2013, many guys aren't aware of this. | 16:06.33 |
| | guys/girls/others | 16:06.40 |
| kens | Ah I think in that case we got the later episodes too | 16:06.46 |
| velix | Man... sooo many Inkscape versions | 16:07.33 |
| kens | Well it did take them a long time to hit version 1.0 :-) | 16:07.48 |
| velix | and they jumped over many numbers. | 16:12.00 |
| | Affinity is damn nice, but not scritable :( | 16:12.19 |
| kens | To be honest I wasn't kepping track, but I did notice teh announcement for the release of 1.0 on The Register | 16:12.27 |
| velix | They should use Chrome's versioning scheme. Then they'll be at 10.1 in 2 monts ;) | 16:13.00 |
| | months | 16:13.02 |
| kens | Time for me to go, have a good evening velix and all | 16:14.48 |
| velix | 18:16 !!! | 16:16.10 |
| | Thanks and good evening :D | 16:16.14 |
| | My god... the old versions of Inkscape are WAY less faulty than the new ones. | 20:25.01 |
| | <<<Back 1 day (to 2020/09/22) | Forward 1 day (to 2020/09/24)>>> | |
Log of #ghostscript at irc.freenode.net.