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sebras | ator (for the logs): I've hopefully prepared a set of appearling jni-changes on sebras/master. the top commit is an initial attempt to get keybindings working in the java desktop viewer. | 09:01.24 |
| ator: I know we spoke about whether keybindings or menus are the best approach. | 09:09.27 |
| ator: I don't really care about which, but if I make it similar to mupdf-gl I have something to strive for. | 09:09.59 |
| ator: the purpose of this is to exercise the JNI interface to ensure that whatever is needed for mupdf-gl features are also available over JNI. | 09:10.51 |
| and also make easier to test things without having to resort to any other exa | 09:11.09 |
| example app. | 09:11.12 |
Zsolt | hello | 11:09.58 |
mubot | Welcome to #mupdf, the channel for MuPDF. If you have a question, please ask it, don't ask to ask it. Do be prepared to wait for a reply as devs will check the logs and reply when they come on line. | 11:09.58 |
Zsolt | hi | 12:49.20 |
mubot | Welcome to #mupdf, the channel for MuPDF. If you have a question, please ask it, don't ask to ask it. Do be prepared to wait for a reply as devs will check the logs and reply when they come on line. | 12:49.20 |
Zsolt | what means if a pdf has annotations inside page area? | 12:50.11 |
| link annotations | 12:56.35 |
| does somebody from here used adobe acrobat? | 13:08.04 |
| for pdf editing | 13:08.18 |
| | 14:03.10 |
| . | 14:03.13 |
| hi | 14:03.26 |
mubot | Welcome to #mupdf, the channel for MuPDF. If you have a question, please ask it, don't ask to ask it. Do be prepared to wait for a reply as devs will check the logs and reply when they come on line. | 14:03.26 |
Zsolt | is there a way to edit the pdf modification date directly? | 14:03.59 |
Kantor | could somebody help me to find out which of 2 pdfs is the original one? | 16:42.49 |
sebras | Kantor: I'm not sure how one can determine that conclusively. | 16:48.12 |
| Kantor: but mutool show pdfref17.pdf trailer.Info might show a creationdate that could give you a clue. | 16:49.23 |
| Kantor: that date can be manually changed though. | 16:49.36 |
Kantor | sebras, thanks that you are here! I'm struggling now for two day to find that out . . . | 16:50.55 |
| can somebody change the creation and modification date of a pdf without actually modifying the pdf content? | 16:52.34 |
sebras | Kantor: if the PDF is not encrypted, yes they can. I don't know how likely that is in your case. | 16:53.18 |
Kantor | sebras, if I send you the two files maybe could you check which is the original one? | 16:54.23 |
| it is about a ebook | 16:54.39 |
| with cover picture, table of content, bookmarks | 16:55.09 |
sebras | Kantor: may I ask why it matters? | 16:55.57 |
Kantor | because I'm more comfortable to know that I have the original version. It is just my view of things. I'm using the book only for myself, I don't want to sell it or to spread it in any way . . . | 16:57.50 |
sebras | Kantor: I can't guarantee that you have the right one, but I can tell you what I find. | 16:58.20 |
Kantor | that would help also. What I tried and found out is that the one that is a little bit larger (4.8 MB) has extra link annotation information inside some of the pages. | 16:59.51 |
sebras | Kantor: do you have a link? | 17:00.19 |
Kantor | I used acrobat dc to check the pdf struture | 17:00.24 |
| yes, I'm uploading the 2 books right now to google drive | 17:00.42 |
sebras | Kantor: can't you view the Document Properties in acrobat DC? | 17:00.51 |
| Kantor: that dialogbox should show the creation date and any recorded modification date. | 17:01.14 |
Kantor | I can | 17:01.15 |
sebras | (same information as the mutool command I sent you above). | 17:01.25 |
Kantor | I don't know what dialogbox you mean . . . sorry. | 17:02.06 |
sebras | the document properties. | 17:02.34 |
| Kantor: like the "Created" and "Modified" fields here: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/uw-s3-cdn/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/2014/01/06144442/Adobe-Document-Properties1.png | 17:03.52 |
Kantor | yes, I can view the pdf property and I can see the creation/modification date, and other metadata info, like which program modified the pdf . . . | 17:04.01 |
sebras | Kantor: ok, then you probably know as much as I do. | 17:04.22 |
Kantor | sebras, yes I can view exactly the same window | 17:04.31 |
sebras | Kantor: then you already know the timestamps for the two files, and you now which one is likely the original..? | 17:05.04 |
Kantor | sebras, yes I know the timestaps, but if somebody modified manually the timestamp . . .? | 17:05.47 |
sebras | Kantor: then you can't know for sure. | 17:06.10 |
Kantor | ok, than can I ask another question? | 17:07.05 |
| which I don't really understand in the pdf structure . .. . | 17:07.54 |
sebras | sure. | 17:07.59 |
Kantor | it is about clickable www links | 17:08.06 |
| in the bigger file where www links are on pages there is an extra annotation entry for that link, like annot1 . . . annot2... annot2http://www.targetsite.org | 17:09.37 |
| but in the other file that annot3 is not there | 17:09.52 |
| and you can still click on the link and it works . . . | 17:10.09 |
| my question is why is that extra annotation entry if the link is valid even without that? | 17:10.45 |
| should I send a screenshot? | 17:10.56 |
sebras | I don't understand what you mean by extra annotation entry. | 17:12.39 |
Kantor | sebras, I will send you a screenshot, ok? | 17:14.30 |
| sebras, https://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/19/99/80/82/annot10.jpg | 17:25.26 |
| with the red arrows I pointed out the 3 annotations on page 13 | 17:26.01 |
| the annotation 2 (the third from 0, 1, 2) has a webpage | 17:27.17 |
| the other pdf don't even has this third annotation | 17:27.54 |
sebras | Kantor: ok. that doesn't tell me which one was the first one. | 17:45.56 |
Kantor | sebras, are you familiar with adobe acrobat? | 17:51.12 |
sebras | Kantor: acrobat dc? not very. but I'm one of the devs behind mupdf, so I understand the PDF format. | 18:08.45 |
| what you show in the screenshot are three Link annotations and one has an action that points to a URL. | 18:09.30 |
Kantor | sebras: ok, what I really don't understand is that the other pdf does not has that URL annotation action but you can STILL click on the link in the document text | 18:12.45 |
sebras | a link annotation can also have a destination within the same document. in that case the action typs is not URI (you see A: for action and S:URI showing what (sub)type the link action is), but usually GoTo. | 18:12.49 |
Kantor | how is that possible? | 18:12.51 |
sebras | Kantor: the link annotation box is still there, but the action might not lead anyway. | 18:13.37 |
| anywhere, sorry. | 18:13.42 |
Kantor | brb | 18:13.52 |
sebras | the annotations may also be arranged in a tree structure. if they are some of these values might be inherited from some intermediary node in the tree. | 18:14.43 |
| I'm not sure if that includes the link actions though. | 18:15.10 |
Kantor | back | 18:41.49 |
| what is strange is that for the pdf for which the URL annotation is not there in acrobat dc I can not even edit the link | 18:43.35 |
sebras | Kantor: I have no idea what kind of editing acrobat dc allows. | 18:44.13 |
Kantor | sebras: mutool can edit only the metadata (date) of a pdf? | 18:46.57 |
sebras | using javascripts for mutool run you might be able to edit several objects in a PDF. it's not something I've played around with though. | 18:49.23 |
Kantor | sebras: if I share the download link of the 2 pdfs could you tell me your personal opinion about which of them could be the original ebook? | 18:57.29 |
sebras | sure. | 18:57.42 |
Kantor | ok, thanks in advance. I think you have more knowledge about pdfs in general like I do, so an opinion from you can not hurt | 18:58.31 |
| https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Iwl72BlM9I9fZZP_beIiXcBDqv6LK2dc | 19:02.35 |
| https://drive.google.com/open?id=1adu7J88i2YYqaoDvQAy_WblrKMZLq9NX | 19:02.42 |
sebras | Kantor: both files have the same creationdate but they differ in modification date, with _1.pdf being dated before _2.pdf | 19:08.38 |
| many metadata fields seem to have been cleared in the _2.pdf, such as Title, Creator, Producer, Subject, etc. | 19:09.21 |
Kantor | yes I saw that _2.pdf has cleared fields . . . | 19:11.10 |
sebras | Kantor: the rendered output of the pages appears to be identical though. | 19:13.02 |
Kantor | actually you must to buy this book, but there is an ebook website/search engine where fortunately I found these two variants. I hope this is not considered piracy. | 19:13.16 |
| sebras: you are using mutool to inspect creation and modification dates? | 19:20.09 |
sebras | Kantor: in my opinion _1.pdf is the original file. since I only wanted to provide you with that answer I have removed the files. | 19:20.16 |
| yes. mutool show mydocument.pdf trailer.Info | 19:20.29 |
Kantor | so you think _1.pdf is the genuine? | 19:22.14 |
sebras | Kantor: I think _2.pdf is a modified version of _1.pdf | 19:22.36 |
Kantor | sebras: my thoughts is also that | 19:23.10 |
| thanks for the help | 19:23.27 |
| I think it is not a crime if I don't buy this book and I downloaded it from somewhere else for free, because in the metadata copyright states that this book is under the Creative Commons license | 19:26.57 |
| Creative Commons licensing means that you can use, even spread the book | 19:27.33 |
| it doesn't tells anything about money . . . | 19:27.55 |
sebras | Kantor: that's a question I'm not equipped to answer or inclined to debate. | 19:28.58 |
Kantor | sebras: yes I know, I was just saying . . . | 19:29.28 |
| sebras: can you maybe tell me why acrobat dc shows a +3 hour when I view the creation and modification times? In SumatraPDF for _1.pdf creation hour is 7:58:00 AM, in Acrobat DC it is 10:50:00 AM. | 19:37.31 |
| the same with the modification date hour | 19:37.54 |
| *10:58:00 AM, not 10:5 sorry | 19:38.40 |
sebras | Kantor: there was a timezone designator in one of timestamps. it might be that one of the tools could not interpret that correctly. | 19:39.26 |
Kantor | ok, thanks | 19:39.50 |
| pdfs can have timezone designators? | 19:40.03 |
| I did not know that | 19:40.09 |
sebras | Kantor: yes, PDF dates are usually saved on the form D:YYYYMMDDHHmmSSOHH'mm' where O is + or -, HH is offset to UTC in hours, and mm is the offset in minutes. | 19:41.25 |
Kantor | ok, good to know | 19:42.11 |
kiwi_66 | Hello, I need to join two pages from a PDF into one thusly : https://postimg.cc/N5JVcVFQ | 20:49.34 |
| The "merge" option seems able to merge pages from multiple PDFs, but each page will remain a single page. Does mutool support this feature? Thank you. | 20:49.36 |
malc_ | ator, sebras: i don't remember exactly where i got https://boblycat.org/~malc/scratch/msfents.pdf from (one of microsofts typography sites) but regardless outline gives very misleading positions, it is ~25M so please tell me if/when you will get it so i can delete it from the server | 22:34.02 |
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