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sebras ator (for the logs): I've hopefully prepared a set of appearling jni-changes on sebras/master. the top commit is an initial attempt to get keybindings working in the java desktop viewer.09:01.24 
  ator: I know we spoke about whether keybindings or menus are the best approach.09:09.27 
  ator: I don't really care about which, but if I make it similar to mupdf-gl I have something to strive for.09:09.59 
  ator: the purpose of this is to exercise the JNI interface to ensure that whatever is needed for mupdf-gl features are also available over JNI.09:10.51 
  and also make easier to test things without having to resort to any other exa09:11.09 
  example app.09:11.12 
Zsolt hello11:09.58 
mubot Welcome to #mupdf, the channel for MuPDF. If you have a question, please ask it, don't ask to ask it. Do be prepared to wait for a reply as devs will check the logs and reply when they come on line.11:09.58 
Zsolt hi12:49.20 
mubot Welcome to #mupdf, the channel for MuPDF. If you have a question, please ask it, don't ask to ask it. Do be prepared to wait for a reply as devs will check the logs and reply when they come on line.12:49.20 
Zsolt what means if a pdf has annotations inside page area?12:50.11 
  link annotations12:56.35 
  does somebody from here used adobe acrobat?13:08.04 
  for pdf editing13:08.18 
  14:03.10 
  .14:03.13 
  hi14:03.26 
mubot Welcome to #mupdf, the channel for MuPDF. If you have a question, please ask it, don't ask to ask it. Do be prepared to wait for a reply as devs will check the logs and reply when they come on line.14:03.26 
Zsolt is there a way to edit the pdf modification date directly?14:03.59 
Kantor could somebody help me to find out which of 2 pdfs is the original one?16:42.49 
sebras Kantor: I'm not sure how one can determine that conclusively.16:48.12 
  Kantor: but mutool show pdfref17.pdf trailer.Info might show a creationdate that could give you a clue.16:49.23 
  Kantor: that date can be manually changed though.16:49.36 
Kantor sebras, thanks that you are here! I'm struggling now for two day to find that out . . .16:50.55 
  can somebody change the creation and modification date of a pdf without actually modifying the pdf content?16:52.34 
sebras Kantor: if the PDF is not encrypted, yes they can. I don't know how likely that is in your case.16:53.18 
Kantor sebras, if I send you the two files maybe could you check which is the original one?16:54.23 
  it is about a ebook16:54.39 
  with cover picture, table of content, bookmarks16:55.09 
sebras Kantor: may I ask why it matters?16:55.57 
Kantor because I'm more comfortable to know that I have the original version. It is just my view of things. I'm using the book only for myself, I don't want to sell it or to spread it in any way . . .16:57.50 
sebras Kantor: I can't guarantee that you have the right one, but I can tell you what I find.16:58.20 
Kantor that would help also. What I tried and found out is that the one that is a little bit larger (4.8 MB) has extra link annotation information inside some of the pages.16:59.51 
sebras Kantor: do you have a link?17:00.19 
Kantor I used acrobat dc to check the pdf struture17:00.24 
  yes, I'm uploading the 2 books right now to google drive17:00.42 
sebras Kantor: can't you view the Document Properties in acrobat DC?17:00.51 
  Kantor: that dialogbox should show the creation date and any recorded modification date.17:01.14 
Kantor I can17:01.15 
sebras (same information as the mutool command I sent you above).17:01.25 
Kantor I don't know what dialogbox you mean . . . sorry.17:02.06 
sebras the document properties.17:02.34 
  Kantor: like the "Created" and "Modified" fields here: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/uw-s3-cdn/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/2014/01/06144442/Adobe-Document-Properties1.png17:03.52 
Kantor yes, I can view the pdf property and I can see the creation/modification date, and other metadata info, like which program modified the pdf . . .17:04.01 
sebras Kantor: ok, then you probably know as much as I do.17:04.22 
Kantor sebras, yes I can view exactly the same window17:04.31 
sebras Kantor: then you already know the timestamps for the two files, and you now which one is likely the original..?17:05.04 
Kantor sebras, yes I know the timestaps, but if somebody modified manually the timestamp . . .?17:05.47 
sebras Kantor: then you can't know for sure.17:06.10 
Kantor ok, than can I ask another question?17:07.05 
  which I don't really understand in the pdf structure . .. .17:07.54 
sebras sure.17:07.59 
Kantor it is about clickable www links17:08.06 
  in the bigger file where www links are on pages there is an extra annotation entry for that link, like annot1 . . . annot2... annot2http://www.targetsite.org17:09.37 
  but in the other file that annot3 is not there17:09.52 
  and you can still click on the link and it works . . .17:10.09 
  my question is why is that extra annotation entry if the link is valid even without that?17:10.45 
  should I send a screenshot?17:10.56 
sebras I don't understand what you mean by extra annotation entry.17:12.39 
Kantor sebras, I will send you a screenshot, ok?17:14.30 
  sebras, https://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/19/99/80/82/annot10.jpg17:25.26 
  with the red arrows I pointed out the 3 annotations on page 1317:26.01 
  the annotation 2 (the third from 0, 1, 2) has a webpage17:27.17 
  the other pdf don't even has this third annotation17:27.54 
sebras Kantor: ok. that doesn't tell me which one was the first one.17:45.56 
Kantor sebras, are you familiar with adobe acrobat?17:51.12 
sebras Kantor: acrobat dc? not very. but I'm one of the devs behind mupdf, so I understand the PDF format.18:08.45 
  what you show in the screenshot are three Link annotations and one has an action that points to a URL.18:09.30 
Kantor sebras: ok, what I really don't understand is that the other pdf does not has that URL annotation action but you can STILL click on the link in the document text18:12.45 
sebras a link annotation can also have a destination within the same document. in that case the action typs is not URI (you see A: for action and S:URI showing what (sub)type the link action is), but usually GoTo.18:12.49 
Kantor how is that possible?18:12.51 
sebras Kantor: the link annotation box is still there, but the action might not lead anyway.18:13.37 
  anywhere, sorry.18:13.42 
Kantor brb18:13.52 
sebras the annotations may also be arranged in a tree structure. if they are some of these values might be inherited from some intermediary node in the tree.18:14.43 
  I'm not sure if that includes the link actions though.18:15.10 
Kantor back18:41.49 
  what is strange is that for the pdf for which the URL annotation is not there in acrobat dc I can not even edit the link18:43.35 
sebras Kantor: I have no idea what kind of editing acrobat dc allows.18:44.13 
Kantor sebras: mutool can edit only the metadata (date) of a pdf?18:46.57 
sebras using javascripts for mutool run you might be able to edit several objects in a PDF. it's not something I've played around with though.18:49.23 
Kantor sebras: if I share the download link of the 2 pdfs could you tell me your personal opinion about which of them could be the original ebook?18:57.29 
sebras sure.18:57.42 
Kantor ok, thanks in advance. I think you have more knowledge about pdfs in general like I do, so an opinion from you can not hurt18:58.31 
  https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Iwl72BlM9I9fZZP_beIiXcBDqv6LK2dc19:02.35 
  https://drive.google.com/open?id=1adu7J88i2YYqaoDvQAy_WblrKMZLq9NX19:02.42 
sebras Kantor: both files have the same creationdate but they differ in modification date, with _1.pdf being dated before _2.pdf19:08.38 
  many metadata fields seem to have been cleared in the _2.pdf, such as Title, Creator, Producer, Subject, etc.19:09.21 
Kantor yes I saw that _2.pdf has cleared fields . . .19:11.10 
sebras Kantor: the rendered output of the pages appears to be identical though.19:13.02 
Kantor actually you must to buy this book, but there is an ebook website/search engine where fortunately I found these two variants. I hope this is not considered piracy.19:13.16 
  sebras: you are using mutool to inspect creation and modification dates?19:20.09 
sebras Kantor: in my opinion _1.pdf is the original file. since I only wanted to provide you with that answer I have removed the files.19:20.16 
  yes. mutool show mydocument.pdf trailer.Info19:20.29 
Kantor so you think _1.pdf is the genuine?19:22.14 
sebras Kantor: I think _2.pdf is a modified version of _1.pdf19:22.36 
Kantor sebras: my thoughts is also that19:23.10 
  thanks for the help19:23.27 
  I think it is not a crime if I don't buy this book and I downloaded it from somewhere else for free, because in the metadata copyright states that this book is under the Creative Commons license19:26.57 
  Creative Commons licensing means that you can use, even spread the book19:27.33 
  it doesn't tells anything about money . . .19:27.55 
sebras Kantor: that's a question I'm not equipped to answer or inclined to debate.19:28.58 
Kantor sebras: yes I know, I was just saying . . .19:29.28 
  sebras: can you maybe tell me why acrobat dc shows a +3 hour when I view the creation and modification times? In SumatraPDF for _1.pdf creation hour is 7:58:00 AM, in Acrobat DC it is 10:50:00 AM.19:37.31 
  the same with the modification date hour19:37.54 
  *10:58:00 AM, not 10:5 sorry19:38.40 
sebras Kantor: there was a timezone designator in one of timestamps. it might be that one of the tools could not interpret that correctly.19:39.26 
Kantor ok, thanks19:39.50 
  pdfs can have timezone designators?19:40.03 
  I did not know that19:40.09 
sebras Kantor: yes, PDF dates are usually saved on the form D:YYYYMMDDHHmmSSOHH'mm' where O is + or -, HH is offset to UTC in hours, and mm is the offset in minutes.19:41.25 
Kantor ok, good to know19:42.11 
kiwi_66 Hello, I need to join two pages from a PDF into one thusly : https://postimg.cc/N5JVcVFQ20:49.34 
  The "merge" option seems able to merge pages from multiple PDFs, but each page will remain a single page. Does mutool support this feature? Thank you.20:49.36 
malc_ ator, sebras: i don't remember exactly where i got https://boblycat.org/~malc/scratch/msfents.pdf from (one of microsofts typography sites) but regardless outline gives very misleading positions, it is ~25M so please tell me if/when you will get it so i can delete it from the server22:34.02 
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